Beyond the Box
Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey is a powerful podcast dedicated to raising awareness, educating the public, and advocating for change in the fight against infant abandonment. Hosted by Monica Kelsey, Founder and CEO of Safe Haven Baby Boxes, this podcast dives deep into real stories, expert insights, and the life-saving impact of Safe Haven laws and baby box programs across the country.
Each episode features compelling conversations with firefighters, legal experts, healthcare professionals, policymakers, adoptive families, and even mothers who have used Safe Haven Baby Boxes. Together, they shed light on the challenges, victories, and ongoing efforts to provide safe, legal, and anonymous surrender options for parents in crisis.
From heartwarming rescue stories to policy discussions shaping the future, Beyond the Box is a must-listen for anyone passionate about saving lives and supporting vulnerable infants.
Beyond the Box
#1 - Welcome to Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey
Welcome to the debut episode of Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey, a brand-new podcast from Monica Kelsey, Founder and CEO of Safe Haven Baby Boxes. This series will explore the stories behind the mission to protect newborns and provide safe, anonymous options for mothers in crisis.
In this first episode, America’s favorite fire chief, John Moriarty, joins the conversation to reflect on the journey of bringing a Safe Haven Baby Box to Carmel Fire Department. With 43 years of service, John shares how his passion for community outreach led him to champion this life-saving initiative. From initial skepticism to full-hearted support, he recounts the challenges faced during the installation process and the unforgettable moment when their first baby was surrendered—1,194 days after the box was put in place.
The discussion highlights the impact of Baby Amelia’s legacy, the changing attitudes within the fire service, and how new legislation, such as Bill 345, is streamlining adoptions to ensure babies find loving homes faster. This episode sets the stage for future conversations about the power of collaboration, the importance of education, and the lives forever changed by Safe Haven Baby Boxes.
Indiana Safe Haven Law
He Knows Your Name
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Today's podcast from Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey is the very own America's favorite fire chief, john Moriarty from Carmel Fire Department. Welcome to Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey. I am in the studio today and I'm so excited for this because this is my first podcast, of course, my first episode, and I couldn't have thought of a better person to deal with than you. You know, as most of you guys know, this is America's favorite fire chief. You have been dubbed that on TikTok.
John:I'm honored. I'm very honored, but I am a division chief within the Carmel Fire Department. But I'm very honored to be dubbed that. But I admire all of our fire chiefs throughout the country.
Monica:Yeah, Well, you know for those who don't know anything about you, so you know, I know you, I love you. John, you and I have been fighting this fight. But tell me, in case our listeners don't know, a little bit more about yourself.
John:Well, I've been with the Carmel Fire Department for 43 years. I met the love of my life, lori Ann. We've been married 42 years, raised four children, and I'm very involved with the department. I was on the trucks for 36 and a half years and then I was appointed to a position of division chief of community relations because I was always involved, even when I was on shift. I was always involved out in the community, just being very involved in a volunteer status. And so when I retired from suppression after 36 and a half years on the trucks had to have both hips replaced. I got that done, which there's a story behind the story behind the hips.
Monica:We're going to have both hips replaced. I got that done, which there's a story behind the hips. There's a story behind the hips. We're going to have to talk about that today.
John:But I had both hips replaced and realized it was time 36 and a half years on the fire trucks a long time.
John:I had worked my way through the ranks and became a sworn captain, a station captain, and I had done everything I wanted to do. But I wanted to continue. But the doctor said your hips are bad, you need to replace them. So we got them replaced and then they had a ceremony for me retiring in that from suppression. And I was gone two weeks and the fire chief asked me to come back and continue to do it Now.
Monica:this was Chief Habash, chief Habash.
John:David Habash, at the time, was the fire chief, and he asked me to come back, uh, as and to be uh the division chief of community relations, community liaison, because a lot of what I had done on in my career uh off duty volunteering in that as well as on duty sometimes um, they wanted me to continue to do so and and I've done that, and one of the programs that he uh had asked me to oversee is when Monica came to us in 2018 with the safe haven baby box.
Monica:Okay, so let's, let's talk about that for a second. So let's, let's, let's stop right there, because that that kind of is how you and I met, you know, and so the relationship between you and I really kind of started there and okay. So when I first walked in there, okay, what was your first thought when we sat down at that table? Because we sat down at that table, me and Chief Habas, you, a couple other people what was your first thought when we were talking about putting a baby box at Carmel Fire?
John:I had never, to be quite honest with you, I'd never heard of the program, but I was very excited to see you know what it all entailed, what it was about, because obviously I'd never heard about anything, but I thought just the mere thought of being able to save human life, that part of it grabbed me right away.
John:Yeah, you know, when you came in and you started to talk about the program and one thing, monica, I want to say that I thought was really neat when you explained it to Chief Hobbush and I you explained it in full and in great detail, the whole program.
John:But you also, before ending, you expressed the idea that you know, did the parts where there are going to be people that don't like this program and so a lot of people will shy away from that or they won't say that because they don't want the public to know that there are people out there that would disagree with for whatever reason I don't know, but they would disagree with the program. And you explained that all to us. Because she said I remember you saying you're going to get calls and people are going to talk about the program and maybe even knock the program. How they could, I don't know, but I'm going to say it that way because I mean it from the bottom of my heart. I don't know how anybody could disagree with doing the program. Chief Hawbush and I looked at each other that day and we said why would we not do it? And everybody was on board the mayor of Carmel, the township trustee, doug.
John:Callahan he helped purchase the box to begin with, and we're just all excited about getting the box put in.
Monica:OK, so what were your expectations? So when you, when you first get the box in, and the installation of that box was a little crazy, because they actually installed it too high, too high, yeah, yeah, so that was.
John:that was neat, that we had set it all up for them to arrive and I was excited about being there and everything when the box arrived. I still have all this in a scrapbook that I made too. Did you really? Oh, I made a scrapbook. You've got to show me that. Yeah, I've got all these pictures in the scrapbook. You're standing in the back room of Station 345. We have it because they dropped it off and they put it in that little storage room in the back of the station Yep.
Monica:I remember that.
John:And we had a blue cover on it and I couldn for the construction company to come and do it begin on it. But you and I are standing in there. They brought it down and delivered it and we were all excited about it. And then they started I think the following day to install it, and what you're talking about was so. They began the installation. I was there every day to check on them. The station captain, tony Keaton, would keep me informed as to where they were at. So I'm at headquarters one day and Tony calls me the station captain. He says hey, chief, I just want to let you know you might want to come and see this. They've got it installed and it looks a little high on the outside.
Monica:It was like up to the top of my head. It's like what in the world were they thinking?
John:So what I want to say is what was really important was I was very excited about being part of the program and I realized I'd done some studies myself that I wanted to make sure the average woman is 5'4" and I wanted to make sure the height on the outside. I did not want to have to stress the mother in any way, shape or form, and so having that at that level would be perfect. So when I got down there that day, they had installed it and they had seriously, they had it all in the blocks and everything was done. And they said what do you think? And I said it's way too high on the outside.
John:And the guy said what do you mean? And I said look, we don't want the mother to have to. She's already nervous with everything going on. Right, think about it. She, you know what a loving thing she's doing for her child to protect it. But and so we don't want any, we don't want to stress her anymore and the last thing I want to do is, on her tippy toes, trying to open the door and place the baby in the box. And I said so you're going to have to lower it. And he said to me what? And I said you're good.
Monica:Now it's inside, we're standing on the outside of it, so you've got this contractor standing here going. You are not serious, it's all done.
John:It really looks great. But I'm looking at it going too high. I don't want her. If I have to reach up, she's going to have to reach up right. We don't want her doing that. You think about it. And then somebody had mentioned something about stairs putting some steps. I've said I'm not going to have the mother climbing up stairs opening the door with a baby in her hand. We're not going to do it. And then I said plus the stairs I see out in the wintertime, all that no, we're not doing it. I said, just lower it down. And he said I said what you know? Was there a particular reason why you put it so high? And he told me well, I didn't want your firefighters on the inside because of the at the level I wanted it, it would put the bottom of the box about four inches off the floor, which I had no problem with Right, but they have to bend over.
John:He said their firefighters will have to bend over to open the box and get the baby out. And I said I remember saying to him. I said, sir, with all due respect because he's a wonderful man, the company was a wonderful company, installed it and they did a lot of good work. But I said, if our firefighters are not able, to bend over and get that baby out of the box.
John:They don't need to be in the fire service. Right, that's our job. We'll worry about that. Let's lower the box. This is about the mom and the baby.
Monica:That's what we're going to do, and they graciously did that and they did.
John:They did a great job. The company, the construction company, was great. They literally pulled it back out of the wall and they lowered it down, and again it made it four inches off the floor on the inside, but that was no problem. You can see that with the pictures of ours. So they got it all installed and they did a great job. I mean, they were ones that I could call A lot of times construction companies. You call and we'll meet you the next three days.
Monica:They were there right on time every day. They are a great company down in Indianapolis and we've done many, many jobs with them.
John:And they've even donated a lot of their services to see if they could come back, I know, and check things for me and it just you know, when you call them and they're like, don't worry about no charge, you know we'll take care of it, and so to say, you know, I want everybody to know who's out there listening. They did a great job.
Monica:They did, really did, and they've continued to do a great job.
John:they have, yeah, yeah, and it's. You want to remember this? It's, it's. It's like anything everything's new to everybody, right?
Monica:our station is different than other stations, so well, and the box was new too, because you were box number seven in the nation, right? So this had only been done seven times, and I think gearbox for this company was the second time they had, the only the second time that they had installed on that one, and so they were still trying to navigate Right, right, right.
John:So it's like anything you do in life when it's new, you're looking for new and better ways to do it. So lessons learned.
Monica:Yeah, and so you get this box and you get it in and we come and we do the training and we get you guys set up. So now the box is ready to go. It is sitting in your firehouse and we wait and we wait.
John:We wait, and we wait some more, and we waited like almost three and a half years 1,194 days. There you go. You got the number. I do that is great.
Monica:So 1,194 days later, the alarm goes off. The alarm goes off Now. You got to hear this. Yes, this gets exciting.
John:So at the time, at Station 45, you have to understand, the fire station was attached to a government center Right, which is the township center. That's where Doug Callahan at the time was the trustee and that's where his office was. So he was the one that actually purchased the baby box for us and was very involved with it as well, I want to say that, and his administrative assistant, debbie Spellbring, was very involved as well. They always took care of all the fees and making sure everything was followed up on it and they were very helpful. So I want to say that on their behalf. But we were right next door, so Doug had allowed us, the fire administration, to have an office with him. They had an open office. At the time we were moving, waiting for our new headquarters to be built that we're currently in now, and so during that time we were down there tentatively for a short period of time, temporarily for a short period of time, but actually it worked out great for me, so I'm working that day I'm in my office.
John:I have to tell everyone out there I'm very passionate about this program.
Monica:So I want you to know I have both my phones with me today.
John:I have both my phones with me today. I have my personal phone. So if this box goes off today while we're in this podcast, you're out of here. I'm out of here, I'm gone, I'm gone. I'm telling you I'm leaving. You know I will. I do know you We'll run Hot if I have to. But in, we set it up on both my phones so it would go off. So I'm at my desk, the phones go off. I see it's a baby box. So I want everyone in the public to understand. When we first installed it, we knew people would try to look into it and accidentally set it off. Do things like that. Kids, kids are kids. We were all kids, we've all done stuff like that. We had kids in the neighborhood that actually had activated it before, and so and I told the firefighters when they do that, when the kids do that, don't we, you know, and they wouldn't I said go outside, bring them inside, show them what. And we did that. We did that with the kids.
Monica:Because you did get a set of kittens in your box.
John:We did, and that was public.
Monica:We didn't try to hide it. No, no, no.
John:We didn't hide it, no, no, no, and we sanitized and cleaned the box, and that turned out to be a good story too. We actually saw that all the kittens through the Humane Society were all adopted and the story made the news and it was great. So that happened before we ever had our. I'm on duty. I'm at at, at across the parking lot, uh, at the government center working, and in the in the administration and my both my phones go off, so I look at it and I'm thinking, okay, it could be kids again. So I get up, I'm moving. No, I get, I always move quickly. I mean, I started across the parking lot and I get about halfway and the station captain calls me and he says John, we have a real baby, we've got a real baby. So, needless to say, I start running. Now I've got, remember, both hips have been replaced. So the guys are in the window. Some of them are laughing, you know, seeing me run. But I come through the door and this is a story.
Monica:I love this story. I just every time you say it.
John:I love this I come through the door, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this. The firefighters had there were four on the fire engine and two on the ambulance, and all six of them had a hand on the bassinet.
Monica:So the bassinet is the part that goes inside the box that holds the baby.
John:Which is great. So everyone knows in the public the baby's protected in a bassinet and it's just like they'd have in a hospital.
Monica:It's detachable, they roll the babies around.
John:Everybody's familiar with that To the nursery and back. It's just like one of those. Her program has one of those built in there and it lifts out very nicely and then we have a changing table there where they can put it on there, open the drawer and tend to the baby before transport. They had done all that and they were coming out of the room. They all had their hands on it and what really got me was to see that all six of them wanted to be part of it and nothing and I kid you that nothing was going to happen to that baby. I mean it. They carried it all the way out through the station and out to the bay area where the trucks are, and then they loaded the baby into it, and each of those firefighters had a hand on that.
John:You have six grown men grown men and I wish I got a picture. I really do. I tell everyone to this and I wish I had gotten a picture. I really do. I tell everyone to this day. I wish I had gotten a picture, because it looked like six angels carrying that baby and they were not going to let anything happen to it. And again, it was our first. We're all excited.
John:So we go to the hospital and the way the program is set up, we have an operating manual, we have forms that need to be filled out, forms that need to be filled out, so I go along with them and when we get there we have a chain of custody form that's filled out and that way everybody that's had contact with that baby that form is completed, which is a wonderful program, and what it does is that form. Then a copy goes with the baby and the baby's medical record for its life, and then Carmel Fire keeps the top copy and then the hospital can make one as well, if they choose to keep one, and then we stay with the baby at the hospital in the NICU. The baby goes from the ER to the NICU and then all the tests can be done and then my wife and I get to stay with the baby as well as Monica and the fire chief. So it was when I called my wife and told my wife we were just talking about it on the way up here in the car. She was so excited. Her and my daughter Libby go out immediately to Kohl's and start buying the baby clothes, which is really cool.
John:I love that. Oh yeah, oh God. Yeah, they did. You know they're just how big is it? And I said I don't know, I haven't got all the information yet.
Monica:She's, that's what matters well as a girl or a boy, you know, I tell her.
John:And then they start buying clothes right away and they and I love it because they're involved with as much as I am all the firefighters are. So, um, I tell the story though. So my wife and I stayed with the baby that evening. When I came back to the fire station that night, I wanted to go back, make sure the baby box had been reset and of course, when I, when I went into it God love them they had sanitized it. They said, chief, it's all clean, we've taken care of it, don't worry about it. And I said thank you guys.
John:And as I walked through the kitchen I tell Monica this all the time I looked down and one of those big silver pans because there's 13 firefighters that run out of the station so they all eat dinner together. You can imagine kind of a commercial kitchen, one of those commercial pans, big, long one. It has a. Well, before I walked in there, they said, chief, we've cleaned the baby box and we want to tell you we made a baby a birthday cake, and I bought this. Really hugged at my heart, it really really did. I thought, oh my God, you're just kidding me Now you'll know. No, look, and I walked back in the kitchen and there it was, in one of those big commercial pans. It even had sprinkles on top of it, which was adorable, but half of it was gone. So I walked back in the kitchen. I'm like where's the rest of the cake? And they go. He would want us to eat it. We know that. But you know just the thought of everybody being involved like that I could see the way the first baby had affected the firefighters and the way the whole program had and everybody was joining into it. You could see them days later. Here's an example Days later I would go out to make sure everything was still okay with the box and everything, because we're all excited and, you know, waiting for the second one now and we're getting ready for the press conference that we do afterwards at that station and we're getting ready for the press conference that we do afterwards at that station.
John:But while I was out there I had one firefighter approach me in the hallway upstairs because I was checking where we would put these alarms. They were asking me if we could install more of those alarms. Initially, when we had put the baby box in, we put one in the main room of the station. So we knew that's where the the main room of the station. So we knew that's where the firefighters were most of the time and so that's where they wanted the alarm. The alarm is basically like you'd see in a school or a church it's a thing high on the wall in the room.
John:But we made these blue so we know if it was a blue light going off, it's the baby box. We had one installed. That's all they wanted to begin with. After we had the first baby, they asked me if we could have one in the weight room, one in the bays where the trucks are and one in the bedroom upstairs. So now we have, instead of one, we have four installed. My point behind that is it was beautiful to see how the firefighters got involved and wanted to be a part of the program and they said we don't want to miss it.
Monica:So do you think that this, the first baby, brought belief? Because you know every department. I mean being a firefighter for many years. There's a lot of critics on the fire department. Everybody's got a stinking opinion, right, right, right. And you know that there were some people probably criticizing why do we even need this box? What's this stupid? Blah, blah blah. But there was. After that first baby came, do you think that there were people that were like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize we needed this?
John:oh, absolutely, absolutely, no question about it. I mean I, I can honestly say I feel in carmel. At least I can speak for him. I don't think anybody was ever against it. I don't recall ever hearing anyone against it at all. Uh, I do know we went like, as we said, three and a half years with just the kittens and being placed in there which was important.
Monica:No, no, no.
John:Because the kids in the neighborhood placed the kittens in there and they put a note on there please, firefighters, take care of the kittens. And so that turned out to be a good story as well, and I think I still think. I want to say this before we go on further, if I can we memorialized our baby box in the name of Amelia. Yeah, and Monica's trademark. On the Safe Haven baby box the footprint is Amelia's footprint, the logo yeah, and.
John:I say all this because when Monica had told me the story about Amelia and we just celebrated her 10th birthday there at our station, which is wonderful about the last baby that has ever been found, I'm proud to say because of your program, that baby was the last baby ever found deceased in Indiana.
John:From abandonment yeah, from abandonment, yeah, and so, that being said, we memorialized our baby box after Amelia, right, we did, and I believe to this day and I said this the other day when we were celebrating her 10th birthday at the station there is no doubt in my mind that that baby is in heaven and people can believe what they want in this world. But I'm speaking from my heart and I really mean what I'm saying. I believe Amelia is in heaven looking down on that baby box and had led those mothers to that baby box, had even the story with the kittens, led those mothers to that baby box, had even the story with the kittens, I think, because so many things have happened with our baby box. Uh, that is is just not that others, all the others, they all work the same, they all save the life of the babies in that, but, uh, the idea that we've had four, the idea that we've had all four were during the day, yeah, a daytime uh, it just just so many things that I believe amelia is overseeing.
John:That. I really do. I I think it's. It's it's just so many things that I believe.
Monica:Amelia is overseeing that. I really do I think it's just.
John:all of them are great. I'm not knocking any others, they're all going to serve the same purpose, but I just think. I think Amelia is overseeing that.
Monica:Well, you know, every life has purpose and I think we found Amelia's. Oh, definitely, Every life has purpose. Yes, and I think we found Amelia's, oh, definitely, you know, and how tragic it was. We have just brought so much change from it and just brought faith Out of her tragedy. We've taken her pain. Basically, and for those of you that don't know so, amelia was found in Eagle Creek Woods in December of 2014. And she was found by a hiker.
John:December 28th.
Monica:Yep, december 28th, she was found by a hiker and placenta still attached. I mean, this baby was full term and she was left where there was vehicle tire tracks. We know that a car drove there and basically dumped her and she was wrapped in a aviation sweatshirt.
John:Airline hoodie.
Monica:Yeah. And so it said Aviation Department, vincennes University. And so Linda Zanocco, who runs he Knows your Name decided to name her Amelia. And then Linda said, monica, why don't you name her last name? And so she also said to the coroner who got to hold this baby, the only person that was- able to hold this baby that she could name her middle name, and so Linda named her Amelia, the coroner named her middle name Grace and I named her last name Hope.
John:Hope Isn't that wonderful. Everybody listen. Come on now.
Monica:Yeah, and so Amelia Grace Hope is the last baby ever to be found deceased in the state of Indiana. I know it's like and we just celebrated 10 years of, and I hate to say, of her tragedy that has brought so much awareness, and it's not just Indiana anymore. I mean, it started here because of Amelia, but now it has just launched all over America and it's because of her and her, her footprint, that we, we grasp to for hope and faith and so OK, so the first baby comes and morale is just like it's, it's it's pumped.
John:We are on fire.
Monica:So then, how many days later?
John:Oh, within, within a period of, I want to say, two weeks. Well, I think it was nine days 11 days, 11 days. I just figured it out. Sorry, John's a little slow and doing my math, but 11 days. We had the second baby. Now how exciting was that.
Monica:Okay, so, so now, because now I'm like you know, I I'm down in Indianapolis right, I'm down in. Indianapolis I have a used boat that we went and picked up. Oh my God. That's a story, you didn't know yourself, I know. And so I'm down there and I am literally sitting in the truck arguing with my husband because he's taken too long to hook up this boat, and I get a phone call. And actually, no, I didn't get a phone call, I got a text From the chief. From the chief.
Monica:Yeah, and this is the funny part- oh yeah, you got it Because he put me, he put you and he put the mayor on the same text. And one thing you have to know about Monica Kelsey is you do not put her on speakerphone and you do not put her in a group text, because you never know what's going to come out of this mouth. And so he says hey, just wanted to let you know we got a second baby in our box. And my response on the text that went to the mayor was shut the F up, and you know it's like, because I was like these guys are playing.
John:I mean this has been 11 days. 11 days, yeah, 11 days. What would be the odds of that?
Monica:What is that? And so, of course, I start calling you and you're not answering me, because you're too busy.
John:What is that?
Monica:And so of course I start calling you and you're not answering me because you're too busy and so OK, so let's, let's walk through that day for just a second.
John:So that day you can see it right here. I got to show it. I love it. Dunkin' Donuts, I literally.
Monica:Dunkin' if you want to sponsor us, mr.
John:Moriarty would be happy. Yeah, Dunkin', Please help out Safe Haven Baby Box Program. I love it. Your coffee's wonderful. I was at Dunkin' Donuts going through the drive-thru with my daughter, who I want to say Libby, my daughter Libby, she's great, she is an RN at IU North and she was riding with me that day. And we're going through the drive-thru, I've got an order in for the coffee and my phone goes off. So I hand Libby the phone and she said Dad, it's the baby box. And I said you're kidding. And I looked at it. I'm like so I'm trying to get my order paid for.
Monica:So I can get going.
John:You're like here take my money quick here here. Take the money $10. Just keep it, don't worry about it. And so I get the money and I'm saying, Libby, did you get your coffee? Yeah, of Carmel at the time.
Monica:How far away is the Dunkin'?
John:Donuts. The Dunkin' from 345 is probably about two and a half miles, maybe Something like that.
Monica:Again during the day, oh, during the day.
John:So I start heading that way and I told Libby, call the station and see if you can get a hold of Captain Brandt. And so she did, and Captain Brandt. And so she did, and Captain Brandt said tell John, your dad, they're on their way to the hospital now with the baby. I said, okay, I'm just going to head that way. So we take off that way, Libby and I do.
Monica:Are you going hot? No, we're not going hot. I'm not going hot.
John:No, I'm not going to say that. But anyway, I'm getting on it. And she's like Dad and I said we've got to get there. But what was funny was when I pulled up the ambulance had already arrived. I saw the ambulance there. The doors were open, they had taken the baby in. But I pulled up and I jumped. I just parked right in the center of the emergency bay at the hospital and I just jumped out. So my daughter's like Dad that way and I go on in. So did you take the keys? The keys are in my pocket. It's one of those push buttons.
John:So I had the keys with me but I think I'd shut it off. But I just left the door open and everything. I jumped out.
Monica:And I ran in because I thought I'll come back out.
John:Well, needless to say, I went on with the baby into the ER, started the paperwork, everything we do went up to the NICU Hours. To nick you, hours later the fire chief comes in and says john, I just need to tell you about leaving your car and I went.
Monica:Oh, no rush, but we got to move your car. We got to move your car because ambulances need to get in.
John:So anyway, uh, it just shows you things that happen. It did make me think about it in the future. So now and it happened later with our third and fourth baby, I would end up parking the my car in the parking lot where it belongs.
Monica:But uh, it's not, it's not as like. It's like. Now we're focused, yeah, yeah.
John:We live and learn, live and learn. But it was exciting, Uh, because you know again, as you're saying, 11 days apart, what are the odds of that. And so, uh, and that baby was fine. My wife and I stayed at the hospital with the baby then.
Monica:Okay. So wait, let's back up for just a second. So then you call, you guys call me, and I'm like, where are you guys going? And you're like we're going to this hospital. And I'm like, all right, I'm headed that way. Little did you know. When I pulled in you had your boat.
Monica:I had the boat on the back of my car and so I'm actually we're pulling into the parking lot and my husband and God bless him because he's like let's just say he is the calm to my storm, okay. And so I'm like just drop me off at the door, just drop me off. And he's like it's going to take three seconds to park this and I'm like no, you have a boat back there, it is going to take five minutes.
Monica:And I don't have that, and so he literally pulls me up and you guys are all standing out in the ambulance bay looking at me as I'm being dropped off by Joe's truck On the hospital.
John:I love it. That's what makes it great, though. That's what makes the story great.
Monica:And then there's a picture that Chief Habash took of me walking up with a boat going that way. It's priceless, I love it, and and so, and so then I join you.
John:Obviously, absolutely, yeah and that's what makes it all special, because you know, all the stories behind it have been wonderful, the whole program's wonderful, uh, the way it works. From there, my wife and I and you and dave, we stay at the hospital with the baby, uh, and we take turns coming in and out to be with the baby.
Monica:Well, and let me be clear the reason why you guys are so involved there is because you understand that when you take this baby to the hospital, it is nobody. Exactly. There's nobody there. I mean the nurses. They do an amazing job, Absolutely, but they are overworked and underpaid and understaffed. And so for you guys to be able to go in and hold these babies until their forever family gets there, which could be hours, you know.
John:Well then it was days. You know, back then yeah, it was days.
Monica:We can talk about that program and so you guys actually go in there and make sure that this baby does not feel abandoned again.
John:Absolutely, absolutely. You think about that? That baby has no one there. Where all the other rooms, as my wife said, we'd walk by and you'd see the mom and dad in there, mom in there or both, or maybe relatives or something but when you get to our room, there'd be no one in there but the nurses and doctors, and that's why Lori and I and Monica and the chief wanted to be a part of that baby's life and still are to this day, which is wonderful. We always will be and so we wanted to make sure someone was in there with the baby. So just so that baby knew there's someone with them.
Monica:Well, and I think that's just so beautiful about your heart and your wife.
John:Oh, my goodness.
Monica:It's like you guys understand the, you guys understand the program. Oh, you, you get, you get it. I mean, it's like these, these moms are entrusting you, right, they're? They're saying caramel fire. I want you to take it from here To take care of my baby, exactly, to take it from here and that's for every fire department, Any department that gets out.
John:It's our responsibility to take care of that baby all the way through, not just to the hospital, all the way through. And that's what I wanted to make our program and hopefully everybody else feels the same way to make your program that way. Remember, we took on the responsibility. We're going to hang on to it forever and even when they're with their family, they can come back and visit us and know we are always there, we're going to take care of you. And what will be neat is later on in life, when you think about it, when they come back as teenagers. Who knows, Maybe one of these children may be a Carmel firefighter.
Monica:Oh, I have as teenagers. Now, who knows, maybe one of these children may be a caramel firefighter.
John:Oh, I, I have no doubt in my mind, one of those four is gonna end.
Monica:Oh my goodness, I think it'd be so cool okay, so so we, we, we have first baby, not 11 days later we have a second baby. And how many more days until we had a third baby?
John:oh, I think that was 30 days. Uh, well, they were. All three were within six weeks okay, so.
Monica:So we'll just say about two and a half weeks later two and a half weeks later, yeah, 30 days.
John:Well, all three were within six weeks. Okay, so we'll just say about two and a half weeks later. Two and a half weeks later, yeah, comes the third one, and Lori and I were just talking about this today, the third one. I was in, I believe, the driveway at home and it went off. My phones went off.
Monica:Again during the day.
John:During the day, during the day, and so I take off down there. I headed straight down to the hospital because at that point I had called, I called from my driveway, and they had told me the same thing they're on their way to the hospital. So my home, which is nice, is very close to the hospital. Believe it or not, imagine that. But it was perfect, so I just drove straight down to the hospital. How appropriate that is. Yeah, yeah, I did park in the parking lot this time in the right parking lot and then grabbed the operating manual.
John:So, as Monica and I are talking as it went along. Obviously, like anything in life, the more you do something, the better we get. And so I was able to park my car and relax, but I was excited at the same time. But I was able to grab the manual and go inside and begin the paperwork and, uh, because you know, and even when you go in, you know the nurses look at you like you're here again already, you know to, to, to uh connect with them.
John:And, by the way, I want to say this this is how things, great things, work together. Uh, that the hospital staff at a later time joined us and I wanted to bring everyone together because, again, I'm very passionate about the program. But I thought how can we make this better and better and better and better for everyone? And so, at a later time, just so everybody knows, we brought the hospital staff, the DCS, the Department of Health, we brought all the fire department personnel, the police department personnel, everybody that would be involved. That we begin to learn. This is the way it's going to go.
John:We wanted everybody's input and feedback, the ways we could make it better for the hospital, the way the hospital could make it better for us, the way we could make it better for DCS, and every which way. And so we had a great meeting at our training room, where our baby box is Again, I say this we have it there because that's where Amelia is and I know she's overlooking everything to bring us all together. It was a wonderful meeting, it worked out great and we made more of our operating guidelines from that meeting.
Monica:And that's how vested Carmel Fire is in this program. Well, one, you've seen the success of it. Two, you're seeing the lives that have been saved.
John:Oh, absolutely.
Monica:But three. You know the impact too by baby Amelia If there isn't resources available, if these mothers want an anonymous option.
John:Absolutely.
Monica:And so okay. So second baby done three and a half weeks later.
John:We have the third baby we have the third.
Monica:You're in your driveway. You park in the parking lot when you get to the hospital.
John:Yeah, I get to the hospital, I go inside and the nurses are like here, you are again, you know again, like that, and I say yep, so we go to the same routine. We go through the ER it's kind of a system now and then up to the NICU. Now this one was a little bit different because there were some different circumstances with this baby and so at that time I think Lori and I were talking about today we were with the baby. We were able to stay with the baby that day, I think for the next day or two, and then some things began to change. It was a different situation. It was good, the baby was fine, the baby was healthy. It was just different with dcs from from one location to another and that kind of well and let's, let's, okay.
Monica:So for those that don't know, you know, these parents have 30 days to change their mind. So when they place their baby in carmel fire department's baby box for 30 days thereafter, if they feel that they've made, uh, the wrong, choice in a law, correct?
John:thank you for correcting me, yeah no, you're fine.
Monica:So that is, you know, 30 days to change their mind if they want reunification.
John:Right.
Monica:And this baby is one of those babies. This baby is actually the only baby that we've had placed in our box that was reunified with the murder, with this mother.
John:So I tell everyone that and I was just telling our we have 10 new recruits. We brought on Carmel Fire yesterday and so I speak to them about the Baby Box program because they're going to be working at Station 345. And I want them to be aware of it and the whole program and I tell them how important it is, how wonderful the program is, because, as you're saying, with our first and second baby it went through the process like it does, the way it's set up at that time through DCS and everything, and the babies were adopted. Both of them were adopted. I know for a fact because we've connected with all the families.
John:The third one we know went back to its mother, and we know that because I can tell you that she reached directly out to me.
Monica:Well, okay, so that is something, and I don't want to talk specifics, but I want to know her heart. I want to know what in your words, not hers, but no, in her words, not yours I got you. What she called you for. Why did she call you? What was the reasoning for her to call you?
John:She called me because she wanted to thank me and thank you and the Carmel Fire Department for everything we did for her son, and she clearly stated that it was the press conference that she had saw from our second baby. And I'll leave it at that.
Monica:So that's why she chose Carmel Fire, and that's another thing that I want people to understand is the reason why we do these press conferences afterwards. There's three reasons. One is to talk directly to these parents, and that's probably the most important part of it but then it's also to explain the process and show that it worked, and it worked exactly as it was designed to, and that the fire department did their job and did it well.
Monica:And then the third reason is education. We can't continue to put boxes out and not tell anyone Absolutely, because if we do that, no one's going to use them, because no one knows they're there.
John:They don't even know.
Monica:they're there and so doing that at Carmel Fire. We're saying by this mom's own words the reason why she chose to keep her child safe and to trust Carmel Fire is because of what we did three weeks before.
John:Yep, absolutely Doesn't that just like— it just chugs at my heart. But to listen to her talk on the phone and her message to me, I was crying. She was crying on the phone. And just to know again, to show you that it works full circle Monica's program and I'm saying this in front of her on this podcast I'm sorry, old school podcast this is wonderful, by the way, thank you. It shows you that your system works all the way around both ways. Because she had said she got her baby back from the court. She went to a hearing, got him back, got back on her feet, got things together and sounded just a wonderful human being herself and I was, so it just made me so happy to know mom Cause again, for all of us, mom and baby are what's important.
Monica:Well, and in that case too. So a lot of people think that safe haven baby boxes is just pushing women to boxes.
John:So so that you know no, and it's always we're.
Monica:We're pushing these moms to make a good choice. Whatever choice they they, they choose, and this mother chose the baby box first, but then she felt that her best option was for her and her baby was to reunify right, and so we support that, we support it, we support this.
John:We state that we always say you can. You've always said it from the podium. I have chief albus has in the past we have said, uh, from the podium that mom, your baby. Number one your baby's okay, everything's fine, we're taking care of it. Number two we want to make sure you're okay. Here's numbers you can call to make sure you're taken care of mom and make sure everything's okay. Number three this is you can with the baby and yourself.
John:You'll be able to reconnect with them After 30 to 45, I think it's 30 to 45 days, but within 30, indiana law you can reconnect with them after 30 to 45, I think it's 30 to 45 days or but within 30 Indiana law you can reconnect with your baby, Right, and we state that, we make that very clear, and so it just shows you that it did work for her. She reconnected with her baby and man to hear her talk oh my goodness, that was wonderful.
Monica:But it brings out the, the, the realness, the, the faith that we have in these moms to keep their babies safe. That's exactly what she did, and then she regretted her decision, and then we supported her to turn around.
John:Turn around and explain to her and we do that as a press conference and I know all of your literature that's handed out as well states that how to go back about getting your baby back. So it works both ways, the whole idea, and you've stated that from day one. You said I'm not telling the parents to go to our baby box, I'm not ordering you to do that, I'm not telling you, even if you're going to the fire station. Just make a good decision to take care of your baby and I want to say to all the mothers that that is one of the greatest acts of love that anyone could do, and I really mean that you think about that decision to do that and to think of her child, to take care of the child that way. That is truly, truly, truly being a great mother, for sure.
Monica:Amen, so okay. So third baby comes, okay, and how long before the fourth baby came?
John:Okay, so the three babies came between, let's just say, April and May of 2022. The fourth baby came in around the end of the summer, we'll say.
Monica:It was August, august of 23.
John:Yep, so within 18 months, we had four babies, had the four babies. Now, what I want to say about between the third and the fourth one, a lot had changed, and what that was, was we noticed. When I say we myself, monica, chief Hobbush, at the time the fire chief, and then I do want to say, right now, chief Hobbush is retired.
John:And he is our quartermaster for the fire department, doing a wonderful job. Our new fire chief is very much on board with it. His name is Joel Thacker. He went through a long interview process in that and then he was chosen from Mayor Fincombe, our current mayor of Carmel. She had chosen him to be the fire chief.
Monica:You got a woman mayor.
John:I'm sorry.
Monica:You got a woman mayor. Yeah, Mayor Sue Fincombe.
John:That's awesome. Yeah, she does a wonderful job. We need more women in those positions. She's doing a wonderful job. She is doing a very wonderful job. She's very boots on the ground about getting things done.
John:That's how it gets done and I know she supports this program 100% and so does the new fire chief, chief Thacker. But what I want to say was after we had our fourth baby, we realized you and I remember talking about this, or after we had our third baby, that we realized there was a long here in Indiana, the way the process worked, with Lori and I being at the hospital, say, and yourself and and the chief coming visiting for that week and then and again. Department of Child Services does a great job. They joined us in all this. They were with us through all the babies. They do a wonderful job. The hospital staff did a wonderful job.
John:But we realized that there was, I don't want to say disconnect, but a long time. So the baby's in the hospital for a week. With the first three they're in the hospital. Well, we'll say the first two they're in the hospital for a week and then Department of Child Services would find a foster family for them to be with. They would be with that foster family, say, anywhere from 30 to 45 days. That's giving the blood mother and father time to, if there's a hearing, to come back and get the baby and then they would at the end of the 30, 45 days they would find the adoptive family. Dcs would do that, and that's kind of the way the first two went. And then again the third one was a different story, but we know that that young boy went back to his mother and son doing well. So that's all good.
John:But we wanted to make a change of some kind. What we wanted to do was we, as Monica would know being a mother, my wife would know being a mother to a baby. The bonding that a mother and baby share is second to none. There is no greater love than a mother and a child as far as I'm concerned and I say that I love my wife dearly in a marriage and everything, there's great love, but there's no greater love other than for the Lord. I want to say that. But it's between a mother and a child, no greater love at all. And so we realized that we needed to get the mother the forever mom and the baby together as soon as possible.
John:So we did go down to the state legislature in Indianapolis, indiana, at the Capitol building, and I spoke, monica spoke, I know Chief Hosbus spoke at one time or another as well, and there were some other folks that spoke on behalf of Safe Haven, and we did get the law changed and I want to tell everybody this while I'm doing this pod interview.
Monica:Podcast Podcast.
John:Podcast. See, I'm old school, I can't remember, but thank you, monica. So while I was down there it was really neat I went to the podium to speak, to begin to speak about the Baby Box program and kind of asking them what we wanted to get passed in this bill. And I looked down, the first thing I saw in the bill number that they had given they, being the legislature, had given the bill was Bill 345. And I thought it just made me smile real big. And one of the senators asked me I see you smiling and I raised it up and I said well, I'm so happy that you gave this bill number 345, because that's the very station number where we've had our three babies. And they all smiled too. So I thought that was really another amelia moment, another amelia moment.
John:Yes, that's great, that's a great way to put it another amelia moment. And so, with that being said, the bill did pass, and so now the way it worked, uh, that the bill passed on july 1 of 2023. Right, and I'm saying that date for this particular reason. When you think about it, we had our fourth baby in august of 2023. Our fourth baby was the first baby to be go through the process and through safe haven and the state and this new law, bill 345,. She was the first baby to do that, and the way it works now is same procedure. The alarm went off. I get to the hospital, firefighters take the baby in the baby's in the ER, the baby goes to the NICU new bill is the fire chief of that jurisdiction, where the baby box is, gets to make it, makes the decision and picks the adoptive agency.
Monica:Adoption agency who will choose the mother and father from a vetted list from the state of indiana which they have to be an lcpa, which is a licensed child placing agency in the state of indiana. But you also still have the option of going through dcs. You can do DCS or you can use an adoption agency. It's basically up to the department now to make that choice, so that you guys feel like you guys have a little bit of say in this and then you guys can kind of follow along in the process.
John:But DCS was very I want to mention Indiana. Dcs was very good to work with us all through all the babies. I want to say this too no matter what, if a baby has been abused in any way, dcs is going to step in which is great oh 100%, and there's no question.
Monica:Well, we're not in the business of supporting parents to abuse their kids.
John:No, absolutely not, absolutely not Fire safe haven, no one. If we recognize that any fire services recognize that a baby's been abused in any way, we're going to report it to DCS immediately. We're going to report to DCS no matter what that we've had a baby in a baby box, and so they're aware of it.
John:But if there's abuse, we're going to let them know and they take it over. I want everyone to know there that if a baby's been abused in any way, dcs is going to take over from that point forward. That's the way it's been explained to us, which is fine. That's the way it should be. We want to make sure it's all taken care of. But with the fourth baby, we still contacted DCS to let them know. But with the new system, with the new bill 345, we had our baby, our fourth baby, with its forever mother, within 16 hours of that day.
John:So that was wonderful. It couldn't have worked better Within 16 hours that baby was with its blood or its forever mother, adoptive mother, and so something I want to say about that too, monica the training video that you've given me to use. I use it at the Carmel High School here in Carmel, the city of Carmel. I do trainings with their family, consumer science, childhood development class and a wonderful teacher there I work with there and, as she told me last year she said you did you taught over 300 students about the Safe Haven Baby Box program, and so every year I go back and teach with it. And now we're setting up a system where we have, uh, the, an older baby box that we're putting on on a the older baby box, which happens to be the box that has the first three, the first three babies, right, because we had, we had updated we, and so we kept the old one.
John:We're gonna uh, we're not gonna put names, but we're gonna honor the dates that they were put in there with the plaque. And then the older box would be used as a training unit, a mobile training unit that we can move at our headquarters throughout the building and different areas of the building to teach about the Safe Haven Baby Box program.
Monica:Always being proactive. I love that about Carmel Fire.
John:Any way we can promote the program. We're going to do so and, as I said, I do at the high school. I think it's I do with the new recruits I just had 10 new recruits yesterday and I do an orientation. I go over history of the department, but then I go over to safe, a baby box program because I want them to be familiar with it. And when I was talking to them yesterday something that always I think about I was using your training video, the same one I use for the high school classes, and it starts with a warning because it talks about the baby that was found along the highway.
John:It was placed out on a highway, a little baby girl in a plastic bag along the highway, and it shows the whole recording of the policeman's camera on body camera filming when he was called to the scene and opening up the bag to find a baby girl alive and well, I might say, which is great. But you know, when you think about that every time and I've been, you know we've been at our baby box since 2018, but I want the public to know every time that I watch that video and I see that police officer open that bag, I just think about. Oh my god, this baby was left along the highway in a plastic bag and if the children whose home backed up to that did not hear the noise and go and get their dad and tell them about it, we don't know what. We just I don't even want to think about what would have happened. But again, I, I this is Amelia, I think, looking out over everything. I really believe that you know.
Monica:I actually spoke with the girl who found that baby.
John:Oh, my goodness One of the two girls.
Monica:They actually had just got home from vacation and they went out to walk their dog and they heard that if they wouldn't have came and this was at night- oh, my God. They had just got home, they went out and it's like, can you?
John:imagine that, oh my God, and every time I watch that video it's a wonderful training video because it's really it's graphic, but it's good it's two Chief Hawbush has mentioned this before when he spoke there are two groups of people who can't speak very or for themselves very vulnerable, and that is the seniors and then the babies. At least the seniors can talk and they can point and they can somewhat defend themselves. When you think about a baby, a baby can do nothing but cry when they're hungry and they've dirtied or something like that, but other than that, they can't defend themselves. And so and again we're talking about human life, so there's nothing more important than that, and that's what I mean. I just want to get that point across. Every time I show that video, every time it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up because I think, oh my God, if those children hadn't heard that.
Monica:And so that was a baby that was found. How many babies do you think are not? Are not? Yeah, it's like that baby was never meant to be found.
John:I read one. We found where a uh, uh, out East somewhere where a baby was after 30 some years, in a gravel pit the remains of a baby were found. And I'm thinking, oh my God, if just you know, and but we have baby boxes in place, we can, this can help. People can walk into any fire station, police station, hospital and hand the baby over. They can call. There's numbers to call Today, there's cell phones everywhere. There's ways of reaching out and it you know, people can make ways to connect with, with your program and be able to take care of everything. But I just say I I hope one day and I say this all the time, I pray to the Lord that one day there'll be a baby box in every state, city and town. That way there'd be one close to any mother that would need it.
Monica:Well, and so that kind of brings us to the end of the podcast. But what was your biggest expectation? I mean as kind of final thoughts, like when we first opened the box has this program met the expectations that you thought back then?
John:Oh, my God, and then some, and then some, by far, by far. It's reached out to so many people. After we began to have as many as we did, the chief and I were contacted by the New York Times. We were contacted by a news representative in London, england, and I'm not exaggerating, where we got on a not a podcast, but on a.
John:Zoom call and we spoke with him explaining the program, and we're glad to do that. By the way, anybody can reach out to me at any time at Carmel Fire and I will give you the whole explanation of the whole program. We'll share our operating manual with any fire department across the nation that wants that. You can take Carmel off of it and put your name on it, because we want to make it easy for everyone and we're continuing to update that as well with new and better ways of doing it, because we'll always take feedback. But please know this that this program works.
John:It saves human life and to me there's nothing, you know. Someone asked me the other day. They said they were talking about you know money and life like that, and I said you know what? Money can't buy happiness by any means. I'm blessed with what I have in my life. But I'll tell you this If someone offered me a million dollars or they offered me the idea that the baby box would work for one baby and save its life, I'll take the baby box for saving someone's life, because here's the thing Money is nothing. We have to have it to live, but if we take care of each other, there's nothing better than that. We need to learn to help each other, and this is one way we can protect all the babies in the world. It's just another way, an outlet for them.
John:So if you could say, if you could talk to, you had four moms that trusted you, oh my Lord, if you could say I give them all a hug first and tell them thank you for their, if they were listening.
Monica:What would you say to them?
John:I would say thank you, thank you, thank you to all four of you. God love you. What a great act of a wonderful act of love. You took care of your baby big time, and just you are. You are one of god's angels, for sure, just like this lady here, and I mean that sincerely well, chief moriarty, I am so glad to know you always thank you, it's my honor to know you.
John:I tell people and I mean it and I'm going to say it because she is sitting here there are people in my life that I've met that I truly believe are angels, and this is one of them. God has put her on this earth to take care of these babies and she's doing an outstanding job and her company is just crushing it with taking care of these babies and making sure they get a safe home, with taking care of these babies and making sure they get a safe home. I do want to say our firefighters, above our baby box. Every one of our fire stations, when the fire truck goes out the door, it says every firefighter. They see the door going up. It says on the door every firefighter is going to come home. You're going to come home.
John:Well, our firefighters, after we had the first baby, wanted above the baby box. Every baby gets a home and it's there now. You wanted above the baby box every baby gets a home and it's there now. You can see it on our website and see pictures of the baby box where it says every baby gets a home and we're gonna make sure that happens in Carmel and all over the United States and hopefully all over the world, if everybody will jump on board and with safe haven and we'll get these babies in London and Ireland and everywhere they need them.
Monica:I'm gonna have to have to hire more staff.
John:But no, it's all again. It's all about saving lives, amen. Thank you for the honor and privilege of coming up here and speaking on her behalf. I really mean this. It's truly an honor to me and anybody I can help. Please reach out to me at Carmel Fire in Indianapolis or through Monica as well. That's fine.
Monica:Well, it is good to know you. Chief Moriarty, Thank you for coming up and thank you for partnering with us many years ago to save these lives, and I can't wait to see what Christ brings. That's what we're going to do, and when you do retire, you have a job at Safe Haven Baby Boxes, you can join our team.
John:No matter what I do, I can guarantee you I will always be helping Safe Haven Baby Box program. No matter what I do, I will be here to my grave because we're going to make sure these babies are taken care of, and I hope others join in and help carry this program on forever. Thank, you.
Monica:Well, it is the end of the podcast with America's favorite fire chief here, chief Moriarty from Carmel Fire Department, and I just I love you, I appreciate you and I'm so proud to know you and your department because you guys have just been amazing to work with.
John:Thank, you very much.
Monica:God bless you guys, and this is it. We'll see you guys next time on Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey.