Beyond the Box
Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey is a powerful podcast dedicated to raising awareness, educating the public, and advocating for change in the fight against infant abandonment. Hosted by Monica Kelsey, Founder and CEO of Safe Haven Baby Boxes, this podcast dives deep into real stories, expert insights, and the life-saving impact of Safe Haven laws and baby box programs across the country.
Each episode features compelling conversations with firefighters, legal experts, healthcare professionals, policymakers, adoptive families, and even mothers who have used Safe Haven Baby Boxes. Together, they shed light on the challenges, victories, and ongoing efforts to provide safe, legal, and anonymous surrender options for parents in crisis.
From heartwarming rescue stories to policy discussions shaping the future, Beyond the Box is a must-listen for anyone passionate about saving lives and supporting vulnerable infants.
Beyond the Box
From Bill to Baby Box: A Legislative Journey
From a simple conversation to a nationwide movement saving hundreds of lives—the untold story of Safe Haven Baby Boxes unfolds through an intimate chat between founder Monica Kelsey and former Indiana State Representative Casey Cox, the man who authored America's very first baby box legislation.
Their reunion at Woodburn headquarters reveals the extraordinary behind-the-scenes struggle that brought this life-saving concept to reality. When government agencies insisted no safety protocols could make baby boxes viable, Monica made the bold decision to install them anyway—a risk that would ultimately save 288 children's lives and counting.
"I just wanted to save one baby a year," Monica confesses, recalling her frustration when state officials rejected the concept despite finding approximately two abandoned infants dead annually in Indiana. Casey shares his perspective as a freshman legislator who saw potential in Monica's revolutionary idea: "I thought it was wild...but honestly, I thought it was a great idea."
What follows is a master class in persistence, as they recount legislative battles, regulatory roadblocks, and the watershed moment when the first infant was safely surrendered—a midnight text message that changed everything. Now operating in 22 states with 59 babies saved directly through boxes and another 229 through safe haven handoffs, their partnership demonstrates how ordinary citizens can create extraordinary change.
This deeply moving conversation isn't just about policy—it's about purpose, courage, and the ripple effects of standing firm when facing opposition. As Monica puts it, "The right thing to do is always the right thing to do." For anyone who's ever wondered if one person can make a difference, this episode provides an emphatic and inspiring answer.
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This is Monica Kelsey from Beyond the Box in Woodburn, indiana. I am not on the road today, and today we have a special guest who has been with us since the beginning, mr Casey Cox, from Indiana I'm not gonna tell you the city where you're from, but from the Fort Wayne area, let's just put it that way From the Fort Wayne area that literally kind of rode this wave with me from the beginning, and so tell everyone who doesn't know who you are why you're so important to Monica Kelsey.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for having me here, monica. It's always so great to come out to Woodburn and see the growth of this organization and hear about the lives that you all are touching and changing. And, as we've talked in the past, you know my role in this. I always consider a small role, but it was at the beginning and it's exciting to be a part of that. I served in the Indian House of Representatives from 2013 to 2016. And I think we met probably in 2014. Right, so it was just a brief time that I was in there. But, yeah, you were introduced to me through a mutual friend, kathy Hombarger, and, as I recall, it coincided really well because I had read about, I was actually your state representative at the time.
Speaker 1:You was, you was, and you're being very bashful right now. Why don't you just say it? You passed the very first baby box bill in America. Yeah, that's what you did, yeah it was yeah it was OK, so now let's keep talking.
Speaker 2:You brought the concept up and yeah, and it was. It was great to put pen to paper and go through. You know what some of the parameters might look like to make sure that this concept could be put into law. And we weren't successful the first time but with your endeavors, you know, we eventually got there.
Speaker 1:So let's go back to that kind of that. You know, first time that we met, so you had kind of been working on something similar with education on the safe haven law, because there was no education on the safe haven law prior to this. I mean, we passed a law in Indiana back in 2001 that said, you know, women can surrender their babies at fire stations and hospitals, but they have to just walk in and hand their child to a person, yeah, and no questions asked. But there was no training for the first responders or education for the communities, and so you were just basically trying to bring that out. You know, let's get some education in that.
Speaker 1:And then here I come, you know both, you know, just rolling up, going, hey, what do you think about a baby box concept? And so what was your first thought? What was your? I mean, you had to have thought I was nuts, or because I think I remember a time, Casey, I think I remember a time when you actually said I thought this was going to be on the outside of the building, you know, after I had installed it. And so what was your thoughts?
Speaker 2:I thought it was wild. No, I honestly thought it was a great idea. So you're right, I didn't know that the safe haven laws existed. I didn't know that they were. I think they were in all 50 states, passed in the early 2000s and I read about this right before I'm introduced to you and it was also around the same time that there was a fatal abandonment in Indianapolis. And I get introduced to you and you have this idea Because you had just did. You come back from.
Speaker 1:South Africa South.
Speaker 2:Africa. Yes, this idea, um, you, because you would just you, come back from south africa, yeah, yeah, and and and I actually I I thought, wow, this is this, this may be it. I mean this, there's this, this law that makes a lot of sense to me from a policy standpoint. Um, it seems to be really underutilized. Um, I don't have any answers as to how, how to promote it or what to do with it, but I'm in a position in the legislature to maybe do something like that.
Speaker 1:And you bring out this great idea and you're also a lawyer.
Speaker 2:I'm a lawyer, you're also an attorney. We met in my law office First time. I think we ever met yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, from a perspective of being a representative but also a lawyer, could you see those things intertwining like bringing this to reality in the united states to help save, because we were. We were finding about two babies dead in our state, just in the state of indiana, every year prior to this. Yeah, and so baby amelia is the, the baby that was highly publicized out of indiana, that was found in eagle creek woods yeah and so that was fresh in people's mind back then.
Speaker 1:You know that there was a dead baby that was found in Indianapolis and that now here we come, we want to, we want to try and change this and make it something that is there's no shame and there's no judgment involved from a woman that doesn't have to show her face. And so, um, from that aspect did. Could you see it intertwining? Um, yeah, I, I remember um to that aspect.
Speaker 2:Could you see it intertwining? Yeah, I remember to that point. I remember, after you and I had met and you brought forth this idea, I went on vacation and I remember my family had gone to bed and I set up with my laptop trying to write provisions like what it would look like in Indiana code, which the legal background helps and and and and.
Speaker 2:Usually when a legislator writes, they don't write their own bills usually, but I always like to try to use my legal background to sketch out what I thought it might look like. And then that gets sent off to a legislative services group and then they work on it from there. But but but looking at like the potential liabilities and then how the language that might be used in the code, those sort of things were very helpful and then I think we sent that off, some draft of that off, to legislative services. I would have shared that with you. You gave some pointers and insights in terms of what you thought might be helpful in the law to make sure that some version of this could become a reality.
Speaker 1:And so that is how House Bill 1016 was formed was while you were on vacation.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah 1016. I have a bunch of them. I wasn't there very long, but that was one where you get a copy of the bill after it becomes law, and so I was looking at some old files the other day and and that was one of them's right there, very special so well.
Speaker 1:So you, since you bring that up, do you think this is the bill that probably made the biggest impact while you were in this state house?
Speaker 2:I to this day, if I go to Indianapolis and the legislature has changed over tremendously. It's probably 75% of the people. This was, I guess, 10 years ago. We were working on this for more than 10, 11 years, so a significant number have changed over. But for the 25% who are still there, who remember me, if I said you know what you name a bill that I was involved, this would probably be number one that they would bring up. And, as you recall, the first bill, the draft that went to the House, set up, I mean it rewrote that original safe haven law.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it allowed it. I mean it was original safe haven law Right and it allowed it. I mean it was a very flexible law. It authorized baby boxes. I remember we used different nomenclature that then others wanted us to change but it passed unanimously, I think from the Indian House. It had Republican and Democratic House co-authors on it. I think that everyone saw, okay, here's an opportunity to expand the existing law to deal with a problem that we all should be very interested, regardless of your political affiliation. And it was a popular bill. It goes to the Senate and it gets changed completely Chopped up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I learned late in the process that, look, the House version that passed probably isn't going to pass the Senate, but maybe there's an opportunity here to at least start to set some of the safety protocols up.
Speaker 1:Well, and the conversation Just set the conversation. Yeah, yeah, you know, let's just talk about it. Let's say how can we do?
Speaker 2:this. It was so new right.
Speaker 1:This idea was revolutionary yeah, and so you know so, and I remember talking about the, the senate changing all of this, yeah, and us, you know, saying, okay, well, we want their help, we want the department of health and we want the department of child services input. We want, we want them to help us on this. And so we did change it in the Senate, or you changed it in the Senate, to basically say that we needed protocols from them, from the Department of Health, to make protocols, policies and procedures for the use of baby boxes, and so that passed out of the Senate and then, of course, at the time, governor Mike Pence signed that bill into law. What we didn't know at the time was that it was never going to work for the people who were supposed to do what they were supposed to do, right, and so and I remember contacting you every couple of weeks hey, did we get anything from them? You know, because I was waiting on these protocols.
Speaker 1:You know, in the meantime, we were still building the first two boxes. We knew we were going to launch these boxes in 2016. And so, but I just wanted their input, I wanted their help, and then at the end of December, you called and said, hey, we got a letter from the Department of Health, and so tell me, tell our listeners, what that said, and then we'll kind of talk about what we did after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so, as you mentioned, that when the bill goes passes, the House goes to the Senate, gets changed completely, and we think to ourselves well, we can use it as a step in the process. And so they ask the final bill that passed was signed by the governor, which you were at the signing ceremony for that?
Speaker 1:I still have the pen, by the way, you have the pen, you have the pen.
Speaker 2:Wonderful, and it requires the Indiana Department of Health to set standards and protocols for the implementation of these, and so we view this as okay. One of the concerns that was raised in the Senate was how we're going to make sure this is safe, and so we're going to let the regulators, the Department of Health, set those protocols, and we'll just you all can design around that right.
Speaker 2:And so the letter I get back from them. I remember reaching out to them frequently in the fall and into December, because I think their deadline was end of year, saying you know where is this? The law requires you to do this. And I get back a letter from the commissioner who later becomes the Sur general for the united states.
Speaker 2:A few years later, I'm sure he still knows who I am and, and the letter basically says there are no protocols that can be developed that would be safe and they're therefore um this. The answer is that there is.
Speaker 1:There is no answer well, they said that there's no recommendations. Yeah, yeah, they took the word recommendations and said, well, we're not recommending them because there is no answer. Well, they said that there's no recommendations. Yeah, yeah, they took the word recommendations and said, well, we're not recommending them because there's no safety.
Speaker 2:So they were, I guess, trying to shortcut the law that required them to come up with standards and protocols by saying there are none that can be recommended, and so I wrote them a letter back, and what I did is I had maybe not all, but a number of co-sponsors and authors signed this letter from me and that was again Republicans and Democrats because it had broad support initially and we sent that back and the Indianapolis Star got a hold of that letter and it's the only time I think I've been above the banner on their website and it was basically that the Department of Health was refusing to do this and so that's just one of the you know obstacles that you have hurtled over over the years and seeking the long term goal and vision of of ensuring child safety and that this is a becomes a reality.
Speaker 2:And look at the results.
Speaker 1:Well, do you think they underestimated us? I think so. I think it's an example of that right.
Speaker 2:How many states are you in now?
Speaker 1:22. 22 states 22 states.
Speaker 2:I guarantee that when the commissioner was sending that letter he never could have imagined that your organization. Organization would be, in 22 states, the number of lives that have been saved uh two, we we've had 59 in boxes and 229 with handoffs which is amazing to me, because I remember in when I was thinking about you brought this concept, this idea up and I thought to myself you mentioned earlier, like my. When I learned about this, I thought, well, maybe we can educate people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I thought, wow, you know this. This concept will probably never even get used, but you know, if it helps publicize that this is out there and so forth, then I think it's probably done a good thing. And if you had told me 10 years ago those numbers, I would have been blown away. I never could have imagined, let alone state authorities who were. So you're saying I was underestimated? Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:You know well and I always knew that if we just brought women options, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, if you just bring the options to them, they're going to choose what's best for them, and it might not be what I would choose and it might not be what you would choose, but it's going to be something that she's going to have to live with for the rest of her life.
Speaker 1:So let's let her choose what's best for her. And so and I think that's why people truly respect this organization so much is because we're not making decisions for somebody else, we're letting them make them and then we're just allowing ourselves, or they're allowing us, to walk alongside them on their journey. You know, and uh, and I love it when a mother trusts me enough to allow me to walk with her, because, you know, I didn't have my birth mom didn't have that all those years ago. She didn't have anybody to walk alongside her in an unplanned pregnancy, that that she didn't ask for, um, but it's kind of my legacy now and I'm their voice and I'm I'm so honored to be able to, to do this work for them and with them. Uh, that Christ has kind of led me down. You know, I've always said that there's no way we got to where we are without him driving this bus.
Speaker 1:There's no way, there have been doors that have been opened that should have never been opened, and there's only one reason that they were. And so, okay, so let's go back to that. So, mr Jerome Adams, who I'm sure he remembers my name, I bet you if I walked up to him and said, hey, I'm Monica Kelsey, the baby box lady, he'd be like, oh gosh, you know. But okay, so he sends a letter to us and says they're not going to do it. And I was devastated. I was like why do they not want to help me change this? I mean, we're finding two babies dead in our state every year. I just want to save one. I just want to break that in half. Let's just, let's just save one baby a year.
Speaker 1:And um, and they didn't want to help, and so I I was like, is there anything stopping me from doing this? And uh, and I think you and I had a couple conversations and you actually told me that Jim Bopp needed to be on my team and and you, you suggested I get a hold of him, and I often say when I speak that he was the prick that I needed, because he was. He hit it head on, you know. And so I contacted him and he said you know, there's nothing saying you can do it and there's nothing saying you can't.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I said, well then, it's legal right. I mean I can do this. And he's like well, I don't recommend it. I'm like I'm not asking for your recommendation, I'm just, you know, can I get in trouble for doing this? And he said no, I don't think you can, and so I launched the very first baby box in Woodburn, indiana, without the approval of the state of Indiana. Yeah, and Took a risk. Took a risk.
Speaker 2:Took a huge risk For the betterment of the children who could be saved from this.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, I look back now and that was the right, because actually, you know, when the fight started, the Department of Child Services came out and Mary Beth Bonaventura, who was the director for DCS at the time, wrote a letter to us saying shut these boxes down, they're illegal. And so I went back to Mr Bopp you know the attorney that you suggested and I said you know what? What do we do now? And and he says, well, I'm going to recommend that you shut these boxes down until you guys come to an agreement. And I'm like, but you told me that I wasn't doing anything illegal. And and he says, no, you're not breaking any laws.
Speaker 1:But you know this could be a huge fight. And I'm like, well, I signed up for that, put me in coach. And so I actually had to sign a letter that he recommended that I shut the boxes down until this was over. And I signed this paper that he had advised me to do that and I rejected it and kept them open. And you know, to this day, we've never shut any boxes down. There's been a couple of boxes in ohio that the locations decided to shut down because of legislation, but we've never shut any boxes down what finally caused how far did dcs take it?
Speaker 2:what? What finally got them to back off?
Speaker 1:was it changed the law later that they backed off, or well, uh, senator holdman stepped up and said I'm going to take this on, and he used to work for the Department of Child Services, remember. And so he said you know, I'm going to fix this at the next legislative session. That kind of calmed it down.
Speaker 1:But then also JJ's accident happened, and so I was kind of preoccupied with my family kind of trying to fix my family, and so I kind of just let things slide for a little while, keeping those two boxes open, because one thing that I didn't want is I didn't want a woman who had already heard me out there talking about utilizing these boxes if they needed them but now shutting them down and they needed it, which, interesting enough, before we actually got this fixed, we had two babies in our boxes, and so if I would have shut those down, would baby Grace have have been saved, if baby Grayson, you know? And so let's talk about that for a second, because you were one of the first people that I texted and I believe it was after midnight, because nobody texted me back until the next morning.
Speaker 1:I was like these people are in bed, but I'm texting them anyway, and so I texted you, I texted Kathy Humbarger, I texted Travis Holdman and I sent you a photo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1:And what was your thoughts? First baby ever saved in a baby box.
Speaker 2:Amazing right.
Speaker 2:Like I said earlier, my thought was gee, I don't know if this is implemented, if these will be used, if they'll make a difference, and so I was blown away because it's like you have this abstract thought but then, once it becomes reality, there's actually a human life that's been impacted by this. It's pretty amazing. Been impacted by this. It's pretty amazing and similar to that.
Speaker 2:You invited me to an event a few years ago and I got to go up on stage and I think at the time maybe there were 11 children that had been saved through the boxes that you had up there, and it's just amazing, it's gratifying, I mean and again, my role in this is, in my view, tiny, but even to have a small role in something that touches that many lives. These children are going to have lives of their own, they have families, they're going to have families when they're older, presumably, and so, and then their kids are going to write. It just keeps going and it's it's nice, it's gratifying to right. It just keeps going and it's nice, it's gratifying to be able to play some small roles.
Speaker 1:A small role, but yet a risk that you took. Because you took a risk fighting for this and you know I often look back on the time even fighting at the state house, and you didn't back down either. You know, you, you, you fought hard through that legislative session to make sure that it got through the finish line, even if it was them doing protocols, policies and procedures, because at the time we thought that was what was best anyway. Um, but you never gave up. You never came back to me and said monica, we just, we're just, we're just not going to push this bill through. You always had an answer for me. You always okay, let's try this, let's try this. There was many times where we came back and we were like I don't know if we should do this. Remember the hearing 18 people voted down the baby box and here we were like well, you guys were stupid. You know, like why would you even? It was just, you had my back the entire time.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I mean, when you have someone like you being able to testify, then you know you got an ace in your back pocket, right? So I mean, how many hearings have you testified in front of throughout the country?
Speaker 1:I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Many, many, Dozens and dozens and dozens, yeah, country, I have no idea. Many, many dozens and dozens and dozens, yeah, um, and you tell, I mean there's a compelling story. And now you have, you have the examples of the work that's been done, the lives that have been saved and touched to be able to share, um, but but even then, back when we thought like hey look, this is in the senate and they, they're gonna take out the entire bill and they wanna move this, I knew at the very least that you and others that we had testifying could tell a really compelling story about what this would mean to the lives of Hoosiers, and not only that, those that really were in circumstances that needed this availability, that needed this assistance, potentially. So I always thought that, at the very least, despite legislative hurdles that might be there, so long as you can tell an honest and good faith story and you're doing, what you're pursuing is being pursued from the best possible places, then it's a war, it's a cause worth pursuing.
Speaker 1:Well, and you were at the very first baby box blessing. Yeah, you came you came, you took time out of your day, and then also a couple of years ago, we had a, an event here where you got to meet more of the babies that had been saved.
Speaker 2:And I hadn't been here before and I was blown away and to think about the first prototype that you brought to one of those hearings oh my gosh that thing was like and compare it to what it is now the $700 prototype that I talk about in all of my talks because it was so basic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like there was no electronics to it. It was literally a shell of a box that I paid seven hundred dollars for actually my husband paid seven hundred dollars for because I wrote a check from his account to do it that but it was so basic and I carry that thing all over just proud what's cool, though, is even then, you were explaining to policymakers the the safety features that would be inherent within this right which, now, which which exists, yes, right, like to to have that vision of this is what this can and should be, and then to follow through with that and um, that the safety features have been so proficient is, is you follow through with those, those things that you testified to way back 10 years ago, 11 years ago?
Speaker 1:It's crazy to think how far back we go. Time just flies. You know time just flies. So what's next for Casey Cox? I mean, are you ever going to go back to the legislator? You ever think about that?
Speaker 2:I, you know, I left nine years ago nine years ago this month and always said, um, I wouldn't consider it for another 10 years. So it's almost been 10 years and I still sort of think another 10 years. So I I very much have an interest in um, trying to help people, trying to to work on projects and and uh, from what you and I worked on to some of the other things that that we did in my my brief time there, I don't have a real interest in running for office. As we sit here right now, I'm grateful for the experience. I'm thankful my, my kids, who are now 14, 12 and 9, really have no memory of me being down there, right, and and that that's been a blessing actually, because I wouldn't want to do it right now with them growing up.
Speaker 2:But one of the coolest things I did is I realized in my very last day of session in 2016 that I was probably on my way out, the voters were probably going to be going in a different direction and we used to get these rule books and I had been there for three sessions. So I had three of them. I had three kids. Actually, my wife was pregnant with. Number three at the time was just about to give birth and I wrote a note like a two-page note in there for each of them, which at the time they wouldn't be able to understand, but as they've gotten older they can look back on and so hopefully that inspires them to appreciate public service, or the service that it actually is to the public, versus anything that they see on TV or might become concerned about later on.
Speaker 1:So in the books that you write then, now I'm just curious. Now you just opened my curiosity what do you put in that? I mean, are you talking about your time in the Senate and what you've done, or is it just, you know, inspiration on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's sort of a note. Each of them are a little bit different, but it's a note to each of them about how much I miss them when I'm away from them, that I don't know how long I'll do this, that I don't know how long I'll do this, that I hope that when they're older, they're able to look back on this and ask me questions about the things that I worked on and why it was meaningful to me, and that, ultimately, I hope that they have an appreciation for serving others when they're older.
Speaker 1:So that's essentially it. Do you think that they'll go into politics?
Speaker 2:My oldest. No, I think my son is very interested. It's funny. Physically he looks nothing like me. He's going to be about six or seven inches taller than I am, which?
Speaker 1:is good for him.
Speaker 2:But his interests are very aligned with mine. So he is interested in history and in government and I've noticed he's been walking around the house with a West Point sweatshirt on. I didn't serve in the military but he says he'd like to go to West Point, so he has sort of interests that are there. My youngest it's too early to tell, I think still. But if I had to pick one, I'd say my son definitely has some sort of interest and he'll ask me questions about public policy, about politics and things like that.
Speaker 1:So would you support him? I mean, I'm sure you would support him. That was a stupid question for me to ask. Would I talk him out of it? Would you try to talk him out of it?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't talk anyone out of it. I would say I've gotten calls over the years since I've left from people I went to school with or others who have thought about running for office state rep or higher office, and I've said to them I said I wouldn't. I'm really appreciative of them. I mean the fact that I was able to get involved with your efforts is really meaningful to me. But I also sort of lay out the struggles.
Speaker 2:Indiana has a part-time legislature, which I think is a good thing, but it does make it difficult for someone also trying to have a career and who has a family when Indianapolis is two, two and a half hours south, depending on where you're leaving from up here and where you're going down there. So, to be real about it, I would advise anyone to say like okay, why am I going there? What are the things I really want to have an impact on? I also advise sort of on the reality of politics that are. The reality of service in a legislature is.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes people have this idea that they're going to come in, they're going to make all these big changes and the reality is like leadership controls, and so you have to understand very quickly what is it within my background that I can bring that can allow me to make an impact on the things I care about. So for me I found very early on like writing legislation. There are actually very few lawyers in the legislature. There's a ton in Congress. There are very few in the legislature because it's hard to manage a legal practice and be an elected official.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you can become a resource for others, and so if you do that, you can build like survivor, you can build alliances and you can then help move items forward. I would also tell people have an end in mind. Like you want to go for how long? Like don't go just forever, Go for like four years or like no more than eight.
Speaker 1:That would be my advice. I keep telling my husband that he just doesn't listen to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then, what for that? We're on our third term. Well, um, you know, some people, though, are so fantastic. Well yeah, he is.
Speaker 1:But let me just tell you the stress your wife has got to be like amazing, because the stress from politics just alone. It's like, oh my gosh, people complaining about trees and trash and it's like there are so much bigger problems in America than your trees and your trash.
Speaker 2:Small town, you know, small town problems yeah and my wife was awesome about all of it. I mean, when we started dating at IU I was really involved in student government. She thought I might have an interest in doing politics, government, one way or the other someday. And it's funny because at the time, one way or the other someday. And it's funny because at the time she was teaching, um, I was gone four days a week most. I mean not quite half the year, but a few months a year, um, and then part of the time she was pregnant and so she was awesome.
Speaker 1:We all know what you were doing on your spare time.
Speaker 2:So um, she was, she was great about it, we but we also look back like those were sort of the hard years too right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. I get that. I you know. Our kids are grown. We're grandparents now, which is the best job ever.
Speaker 2:Have you ever thought about running for anything?
Speaker 1:You know I've thought about it, I've tossed it around, I I don't think I'd be good at it. I really I have too big of a mouth, Casey, Like it would get me in trouble.
Speaker 1:Authenticity, which is what you have is, I think, the number one thing that voters are looking for. Oh gosh, I don't know. I would definitely be opening my mouth and inserting my foot way too often if I was a legislator, but I'll tell you what I wouldn't I would never back down. That would be the one thing that they would get what they voted for. I would never back down and I would be the one thing that they would get what they voted for. I would never back down and I would always put up a fight, because the right thing to do is always the right thing to do, and I think with Safe Haven Baby Boxes, the right thing to do was to launch without the support of the Indiana legislator, in return to save 229 lives.
Speaker 2:And it led, I think, to the second wave of legislation which you mentioned, senator Oldman authored, and then that, I think then it sort of gave it validation right. I mean, you had that, but then it came along after, and so without you taking that risk, I imagine you wouldn't be where you are today, and so thank you for being willing to do that.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for believing in me and wishing the very first baby box bill in America to get through the House, through the Senate, to the governor, only to be shot down. But you know what we did it. You know, at the end of the day we didn't give up.
Speaker 2:We had a conversation with a lot of people. Right, we had a conversation with a lot of people. Right, we did Like to that point that original legislation didn't become what I had hoped it would be when I was writing it on vacation that summer, but it started a conversation that I thought you know allowed you all to take it off to make much more of it allowed you all to take it off to, to, to make much more of it so well.
Speaker 1:And you know indiana now. Um, the first responders in indiana know more about the safe haven law than any other state in this country. The education that is happening in the schools is happening the most in indiana and that's all because of a conversation between you and I back in 2014. You know um just wanting to change. You know make Indiana better.
Speaker 2:And so it's an honor to be a small part of the story.
Speaker 1:Well, I want you to continue to be a part of my story. I've asked you a couple of times. I'm going to ask you again. I've asked you and you keep saying that you're too busy, and so you might still be too busy, but I'm not on my board of directors. But I know a guy.
Speaker 2:I know a guy that could probably.
Speaker 1:I might have a little bit of influence, but I would love for you to join our board of directors. You would obviously have to be voted on, but I would love to put your name in the hat and add you to this ministry that you have been a part of since the beginning. Even if it was just a small part, I would love for you to continue your small part with safe haven. Well, it was um you mentioned a couple.
Speaker 2:what year and a half ago or so, I came out here for the first time since you moved here and was blown away, and I remember saying something to my wife about how, after I left the legislature, I I sort of it wasn't on purpose, but I became disconnected from a lot of the groups that I had worked on legislation related to. And I came back here and I said to her you know, I really it meant a lot to me to be involved in that small role and I'd like to do more of that and getting back in touch and pursuing things that mean a lot to me. So you're welcome to put my name in the hat. If the board so chose to honor me in that way, I'd be happy to participate on the board.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, if the board doesn't put you in then I don't have the right board for sure, but thank you. Thank you for being a part of our story, Thank you for being a part of the beginning, Thank you for believing in me and uh and just pushing it through the finish line, even if it wasn't what you had envisioned. Um, I think at the end of the day, we did what was right, and uh and Christ took it from there and allowed us to be.
Speaker 1:You know the hands and feet so well. You guys heard it here first. Casey Cox will be the newest member of our board of directors, as soon as I get my board of directors to vote him in. Anyways, thank you guys, so much for joining us, Thank you for believing in us, Thank you for supporting us and thank you, Casey, for being a part of our story. God bless you and God bless you, guys.