Beyond the Box
Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey is a powerful podcast dedicated to raising awareness, educating the public, and advocating for change in the fight against infant abandonment. Hosted by Monica Kelsey, Founder and CEO of Safe Haven Baby Boxes, this podcast dives deep into real stories, expert insights, and the life-saving impact of Safe Haven laws and baby box programs across the country.
Each episode features compelling conversations with firefighters, legal experts, healthcare professionals, policymakers, adoptive families, and even mothers who have used Safe Haven Baby Boxes. Together, they shed light on the challenges, victories, and ongoing efforts to provide safe, legal, and anonymous surrender options for parents in crisis.
From heartwarming rescue stories to policy discussions shaping the future, Beyond the Box is a must-listen for anyone passionate about saving lives and supporting vulnerable infants.
Beyond the Box
The Instigator's Journey: From Troublemaker to Advocate
What happens when your little sister knows all your secrets and gets to interview you on your own podcast? Pure authenticity, unexpected revelations, and a deeper understanding of the personal journey that shaped a national movement.
In this deeply personal episode of Beyond the Box, host Monica Kelsey invites her younger sister Mindy into the studio for a conversation that weaves together family history, teenage rebellions, and the foundations of Monica's advocacy work. The sisters immediately fall into a natural rapport as they reminisce about childhood roles – Monica as "the instigator," their older sister as "the good girl," and Mindy as "the informer."
Through laughter and candid storytelling, they explore how adoption shaped their family dynamics. Monica shares how her curiosity about her biological origins led her to meet her birth mother, a pivotal experience that gave her both closure and perspective. This meeting confirmed her gratitude for her adoptive parents while developing empathy for her birth mother's struggles – two perspectives that now fuel her passion for Safe Haven Baby Boxes.
The conversation takes a serious turn as Monica addresses criticism from anti-adoption voices, drawing powerful connections between her personal experience and her professional mission. She articulately defends the importance of adoption and safe surrender options based on both her life story and the harsh realities she's witnessed. As the sisters share stories from their careers in advocacy and social work, listeners gain insight into why Monica fights so passionately for vulnerable children.
Ready to hear family secrets, teenage rebellions, and the personal journey behind a powerful mission? Listen now and discover how Monica's past shaped her purpose – creating safe options for mothers and babies across America.
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This is Monica Kelsey from Beyond the Box. We are in the studio today. I can't believe I'm having my sister interview me here in the studio, but I'm sure she's going to drop the tea. So welcome to Beyond the Box, Mindy. Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:You're so brave, you're so brave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking this morning when I woke up, like, oh my gosh, what is she going to tell everybody?
Speaker 1:And what am I going to?
Speaker 2:have to cut out because of me not wanting everybody to know.
Speaker 1:I know, hey, I was good, I'll be good.
Speaker 2:I'll try so. For those of our listeners who don't know who you are, just a quick brief who are you and why are you so important to Monica Kelsey?
Speaker 1:Okay, so my name is Mindy Winslick. I am Monty's favorite sister, the youngest of three.
Speaker 2:You're a social worker.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, yeah, I work at a school. I'm actually a truancy officer, but I have my social work degree. So yeah, and all my jobs I've had at some point I've worked with kids, so love my jobs, so you love your job, so okay.
Speaker 2:so let's just get into it Because. I have an. I have a bad feeling about this. This is not good, you know.
Speaker 1:I just have to say I asked Dave last night, my husband Dave, I said is she sure she wants me to go in there and tell these stories? What am I allowed to say and not allowed to say, because I got some good?
Speaker 2:ones. Well, you can say whatever you want.
Speaker 1:So I'll just clip out what I don't like. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I see how that goes, okay, no, okay. I see how that goes, okay, no, okay, so, uh. So you know, we grew up in, uh, in in Ohio, uh, with mom and dad and, um, I'm the middle child, you're the youngest child, and then we have an older sister and me and Gina our older sisters is both adopted and, uh, they were never supposed to have kids. No, mom and dad was never supposed to have kids. So they adopted me and Gina, correct, and then they got pregnant with you by accident, and so I was planned and you were not.
Speaker 1:Well, mom might say differently. Mom says that she wasn't supposed to get pregnant, but they weren't doing anything to stop it.
Speaker 2:Oh well, if somebody tells you you can't get pregnant, I guess protecting yourself from getting pregnant really isn't a big deal true?
Speaker 1:so I guess we can say that yeah, so anyway.
Speaker 2:So I was the middle child. Do you remember what people call it used to call me?
Speaker 1:no, monk, what I don't know. We used to call you monk and mon and monnie no brat, I don't know what was it.
Speaker 2:I I meant. I meant like so you were the informer.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, I was the informer, you were the troublemaker.
Speaker 2:Well, not really. I mean, don't tell people that. I mean. Well, that's the stories I have, so so do you remember Gina? Yeah, what did we call Gina?
Speaker 1:I don't know. She was the good girl. She did nothing wrong. She was the OCD that miss. Everything's got to be in order. Never did anything wrong.
Speaker 2:And then I come along. Yeah, I'm doing everything wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you caused so much havoc for mom and dad. Oh my God, I just remember thinking don't do that, whatever they've done. Being the youngest, I know what not to do now to either not get caught or get in trouble. So so I was the instigator.
Speaker 2:Instigator, yes, that was true, yes, I was the instigator. That is definitely. I don't know where they got that from, though.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? You don't know.
Speaker 2:Like what did I instigate?
Speaker 1:You. Well, you didn't really instigate, you just did it. You didn't like yeah, you didn't like try to egg me on or Gina on to do anything, you just did it. And if either of us did it, we just followed. So I guess you could say I don't know See. I wasn't that bad, I don't know. Well, you got in trouble a lot, a lot.
Speaker 2:Dave and I were talking about stories last night, so Okay, so what is one of your most memorable stories of Monica Kelsey?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I have so many, I don't know what I'm allowed to say, so I remember let's don't talk about jail.
Speaker 2:okay, let's don't talk, because I've never been arrested and I've never been in jail. No, but the police have been to our house.
Speaker 1:We don't need to talk about that.
Speaker 2:That's probably something we should just stay away from.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't have any stories then I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, um gosh, there's so many. So I remember mom getting calls all the time from the school because of you and Allie's father. Okay, I remember that. I remember you sneaking out a lot. I did sneak out a lot you snuck out a lot and it always ended up. You were with him, you always had to go see him, yep, yep. And then I remember the library table incident. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh Library table incident. Oh gosh.
Speaker 1:Where you maybe did some etching on it. I etched on the library table. Oh, you and Allie's dad, yeah the boy, the boyfriend.
Speaker 2:We'll call him the boyfriend, your boyfriend yeah, the boyfriend don't you remember that, because I wonder if it's still there.
Speaker 1:No, they got rid of those tables that or they sanded out because mom had to pay for it. They filed, they filed a report and mom had to go up there and you had to go with her. I can't believe you don't remember that I don't remember that. Yeah, because you guys met at the library, I think, and then like in the table it had like your name plus him or something like that.
Speaker 2:Probably Loves.
Speaker 1:Probably, who knows, who knows, there was that. And then, oh, I remember the time, remember when we went to Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:We had to come home early because you were so lovesick over a different boyfriend.
Speaker 2:I don't even know where he's at now. That was my first kiss Like like I was obsessed because that was my first kiss. But you remember on that trip to Wisconsin I had the boom box in the backseat with us. Oh, we only had like a little celebrity that had, like you couldn't have any room in there, I know, but there was three of us back there and I had that boom box and do you remember who? We listened to the entire way there.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Bill Cosby. Oh yes, Bill Cosby.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, we love Bill Cosby and we listened over and over and over and.
Speaker 2:I think, dad was so sick of that when we got there Like, yeah, that was, that was pretty bad and I remember I got a little pin that said I love such and such in Wisconsin and I wore that so proud.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I was in love from that one kiss.
Speaker 1:I just remember mom's like we have to go home. Your sister, your sister's so sad and I'm like, but I don't want to go home. Why do we have to go home? Because she's just, she's being terrible, she's so sad, so we had to go home. Which? Is fine, it really wasn't a fun trip anyway. Well, we went to grandma and grandpa's house, yeah, so it really wasn't that entertaining.
Speaker 1:Remember the neighbors we found like you're like, hey, go knock on the door. You always you were an instigator because you would always make me go do it. You said, hey, go knock on the door and see if we can play with that little girl over there. I go who is it? And you're like I don't know. I remember this. And so then I went over and knocked and I said, hey, we're over at my grandma and grandpa's and we see that you have a little girl. Can we play? And so we did. We ended up playing with them.
Speaker 2:Don't remember the girl's name for anything played with them while we were there, as you were, miserable and dying of love from love.
Speaker 1:That was like probably when I was like 13 yeah, you were really young.
Speaker 2:We were all young, um, but yeah, I do remember. I do remember the wisconsin trip and milwaukee.
Speaker 1:Milwaukee it was just, it was a ship, shitty place like from what I remember, it was nasty and they lived in an apartment on the upper floor. Yeah, the upper floor, it stunk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the upper floor in a two-bedroom apartment. There's five of us coming. Yep, and yeah, I remember that trip. That was memorable.
Speaker 1:That was definitely memorable, yeah, so any of our trips were memorable because we were stuck in that back little seat of the celebrity or whatever car we had at that time. There was no room for anything, so that meant we had bags up on our laps or whatever, and then all three of us fought and I usually got stuck in the middle of you two. So if you two start fighting, I ended up getting it. So yeah, it was never. And then dad would take his infamous um shortcuts.
Speaker 1:Remember those that would add like three hours onto the trip.
Speaker 2:Well, you remember the one time we were heading down to North Carolina and he's like we're not going through Kentucky and all of a sudden we look up and there's a welcome to Kentucky sign and we're like welcome to the bluegrass state.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the bluegrass state yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're like dad like.
Speaker 1:And it was just within minutes of him saying we're not going through Kentucky. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, quite the traveler. I sure do miss him. I do too. I had a dream about him last night, so I think he's with me today. I was nervous about today, so yeah, I think he's here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and you know he's, he was such a big supporter of the baby box foundation.
Speaker 2:you know even the last the last two years of his life, you know. I mean I used to pick him up all the time and take him to cancer, to his cancer treatments, and there was a lot of times where we were in the car at seven o'clock and every morning at eight o'clock we have a, we have a meeting, an employee meeting, and so he would sit through these meetings as we were driving to the cancer cancer Institute. And I remember one time he's like you know somebody had called and I had said hey, I'll have to call you back, you know. And so dad looked at me a little a couple hours later and he goes hey, don't forget to call such and such.
Speaker 2:It was almost like he was my personal secretary sitting there on the passenger seat as we were driving, because he was, you know, and, and one time he told me he said, um, monty, and you know he always called me Monty. He's always Monty. He says Monty I care to know about, because he knew all the ins and outs of it. Yeah, and so, uh, yeah, those those last couple of years of of his life definitely um brought him and I a little bit closer together than we already were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he, uh, yeah, for sure. I think the last couple of years of his life brought all of us girls closer to him, you know definitely made me learn that you know, enjoy the moments while you have them, take the pictures and spend the time with them and yeah, yeah, I miss him. I miss him a lot every day, though, and he was a saint, he he did more than what we ever thought he did at home, so yeah, we're learning that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are. We are learning that now Cause our mom is still alive you know, and she lives on her own, and so we help take care of her and a lot of the things that we took for granted when dad was alive. We're now having to do.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say, you said that he's like your secretary and I was thinking well, because he took such good care of mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did.
Speaker 1:Mom never had to worry about anything.
Speaker 2:No, he didn't had to worry about anything.
Speaker 1:So now she's kind of turned to us on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know well and I think that's the, you know the, the second part of life for us. You know we go from them taking care of us, to us kind of living our own lives to the end of their lives, taking care of them again, yeah, and I think we're just in that stage where now we're taking care of mom, you know, and so, uh, but now, my gosh, this year dad will have been gone five years, 2020.
Speaker 2:Seems like just yet. It doesn't seem right. No, it doesn't seem right. So, you know, going back to you know, our childhood, do you ever remember a time when mom said, well, monty and Gina's adopted, or was it just normal stuff for you?
Speaker 1:I remember, because mom always had that scar on her belly from all the C-sections that she had and I was a C-section and I remember talking about that with her and I remember sitting on her lap. I have this memory of sitting on her lap because I always snuggled with her and asking her well, did Gina and Monty come out of your belly? And she's like nope, they came out of my heart. They didn't come out of my belly, I grew them in my heart and I never. I didn't understand that at that time, but you know, as I got older and like that, so then I knew as I got older that oh yeah, you guys were adopted. And then I remember mom having conversations with you guys because you know I was like the informer, so I was always around the corner being nosy, you know, um, asking you guys if you ever, or telling you guys if you ever want to know your parents or your situation, that she and dad would support you guys.
Speaker 2:And I know you wanted to know, but Gina did not want to know yeah, you know, and that always struck me weird too, because you know, I was always, I was always. I'm gonna find her, I'm gonna thank her, you know. And then Gina was don't care, and she's still like that.
Speaker 1:I know, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:And, and I think, growing up adopted, with Gina also being adopted and feeling that way, it's kind of opened me up to the other side of things that there are people that are just they're okay with with, you know, being adopted, which I'm okay with being adopted. I'm not saying that I'm not right, but um, but I was just more curious. Gina's not as curious.
Speaker 1:No, she's not.
Speaker 2:But they also knew her parents you know, Gina was in foster care and they didn't know anything about my parents other than what they were told, which was fabricated at the time. Back then, but, um, but okay. So you never really were like for me growing up. I always I don't remember a time of them telling me I was adopted. I just remember always knowing that I was adopted, yeah, so it was always kind of like normal for me, yeah, and and so, um, so I was kind of curious to see you know if they actually just told you or if no.
Speaker 1:I remember just mom saying that, and then you guys talking about being adopted and things like that, but like that never. I mean I knew what it meant, but it didn't mean anything different, because you guys are still my sisters. Like I didn't look at it that you were adopted, you know. I mean, people would say stuff as we got older. You know like something about your sister's adoption. I'm like, well, yeah, but they're still my sisters, like I don't, I don't care, like that they're adopted, I don't care, like that they're adopted, they're still mine.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know they're still, they still belong to me, you know we're still all together. You know like this is still my family, so yeah, yeah, and but mom and dad never once said like you know, your sisters are adopted. Nothing like that.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:It was never anything like that, because you were theirs, like you really were theirs, and they didn't look at it any differently in my eyes.
Speaker 2:No, and I think in their eyes too and I mean yeah, and I think Gina would probably say the same thing.
Speaker 1:Like they never, you were always theirs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I you know. I appreciate that now you know, being older and the way that we were raised, knowing that we were adopted, cause I think the people who didn't know they were adopted and then they just kind of throw it on their lap when they graduate high school.
Speaker 1:That's traumatic.
Speaker 2:I just I'm just thankful that I always knew and you know I always had this, this fairytale family. You know that I was thinking about, you know, in my biological beginnings and and but I was always thankful that mom always told me because it kind of equipped me for what I do today. You know, because I work with these moms that that do place or surrender, you know, and do a closed adoption or or do an adoption plan, and I feel that you know, I don't know the people that don't know right away or they're not told right away. I just I feel for them because I just that's, I don't I would have felt like I was lied to my entire life.
Speaker 1:Well, see, and I know people that that's happened to and that's exactly how they feel, and then that causes trauma and untrust, and you know so then they have to deal with that, whereas if they were told my personal opinion, if they were told in the beginning, then they can learn and cope with it and deal with it. But everybody has a reason why they do it, you know. So I mean, maybe there is a story to that, you know, and there's a reason why they chose not to. You know, maybe they promised somebody or something. So, everybody, there's a reason for everything.
Speaker 2:So, but do you remember me being younger and telling people that I was picked up at a garage sale?
Speaker 1:Yes, Because mom and I believed that for a little while. I did too. Because mom always said that you were that she believed that for a little while. I did too, because mom always said that she got you at a garage sale, yeah, and then you liked garage sale. So that was kind of ironic. Well, we always went to garage sales. I know we were constantly at garage sales.
Speaker 2:And I think my little mind was like playing okay, well, if she didn't have me and she just loved me. Well, she loves garage sales and she goes and she picks out what she wants you know, and so I think I think for me that was how my mind was working with. Well, she just got me at a garage sale, you know, and here I am today and I'm just like, wow, that that was that was kind of weird.
Speaker 1:Were you on clearance, though?
Speaker 2:I'm sure I was, if you ask mom, I'm sure she would tell you that I was cheap. Yeah, I probably. She probably marked it, or she probably talked it down.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:Probably. Oh my gosh, yeah, so she, uh uh, she's something else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something else he is. I wish she would have been here today, but well, you know she's.
Speaker 2:She's one of these people that likes to be behind the cameras and not in front. Yeah, Um, and that's okay. You know we're, we're all, yep, we're good, so so. So what? What other memories do you have that people would be shocked to know about? Monica kelsey?
Speaker 1:I don't know, because you're just you. They asked me that earlier. You know, like how you are on screen or on tv or you know you're whatever, um into how you are in real life and I'm like she's pretty much the same. She's always been ornery. She loved to do like gags and like scare people and stuff. You've always been like that. You like to write, which I know. You wrote a book, but you can write. She, you can write. You have beautiful handwriting. You have always wrote poems. You sing. Do you remember when you were in the Navy and you sang?
Speaker 1:I do Yep, so you sang in years you sat on, the mom recorded you.
Speaker 2:It's the only real recording mom has of you at the in your graduation Cause she was singing the rose you sang the rose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause she recorded the wrong person through your whole ceremony.
Speaker 2:I know, I know you remember that I graduated basic training.
Speaker 1:I get home to watch the video of our basic training and mom is videotaping the wrong person in her defense you all have the same hairstyle, yeah, and a hat, but like I'm like mom, that's not money, she's like oh, I thought it was no through the whole thing, but she did get you recorded singing the rose.
Speaker 2:You know where is that footage.
Speaker 1:Who knows, it's probably in my attic with tapes or in mom's yeah house somewhere and those little, those little tapes that you have to have this special thing to play.
Speaker 2:I need to find that. I need to find that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, and you need to put it on your podcast, monty. No, I don't know, why don't you sing some of the rose, right?
Speaker 2:now, I don't even know the words to the rose. You're the Lord. I don't even know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so you like to sing. You were um, you cheered, you did cheer, you did softball. You were a beast in softball, remember that you caught.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you are actually.
Speaker 1:My knees are so bad right now well, you're actually the reason why I started catching. So just so you know that don't know, are you ever bad too?
Speaker 2:yeah, my knees are bad when you hit 50, it's like well, I'm almost there your feet, your hands, your back. It's like what?
Speaker 1:yep and being a catcher did not help any no it does not help, yeah and then, um you, you love to write. I do, even though you wrote a book, but, like you did a lot of poetry and stuff I did.
Speaker 2:You know, I actually found one of the binders, uh, that I wrote when I was in high school. Really, at home I have the binder at home and I have the poems that I wrote and it was and they school Really. I have the binder at home and I have the poems that I wrote.
Speaker 1:And they were good.
Speaker 2:You did really good, it was always about love and it was always about my ex-boyfriends. See, taylor Swift would have been so proud of me. I'm telling you you need to get with Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1:Have her use your poem. Man, you could be, making bank, you could be, or you could be, or you could sing it yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, hey there's technology these days, yeah, never mind. No, 50, 52 years old. Nah, I think that's a career I just don't want to go down. So, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So the memories, yeah, the memories, and uh, so I have a question yeah, um, so you know, when you you did meet your mom, your biological mom, what was it that actually and I know you said like you were curious and stuff but what was it that actually made you like, what was the deciding factor for you to go and meet her?
Speaker 2:Finally, I think it was just curiosity. I mean I don't think it was. I mean, I was never mad at mom and dad, you know they were always mom and dad. They were always my parents. I think it was just a curiosity thing for me is I just wanted to know my story actually found her and all the notes that I wrote on it, cause I did not find her in a conventional way.
Speaker 2:I did not have a piece of paper with her name on it. I actually stumbled upon her and um, but I think it was more just curiosity. And then when I met her. I learned a lot from that meeting. I learned a lot from that meeting.
Speaker 2:Um, I am so thankful that I was adopted, because if I would have been raised in that environment, and I'm not saying that her life was terrible, um, but drugs and alcohol was on the forefront of her life for many, many years. And I am just thankful that I was placed with parents that loved me unconditionally from the start, treated me just like their own. Uh, never once made me feel any different. Just like their own. Uh, never once made me feel any different. You know I was theirs, you know I was mom and dads and and so yeah, for me it was just just curiosity and I'm glad I did.
Speaker 2:you know, I'm glad I did what I did, because she's now since passed away, um, but I have that knowledge now that I think, um, that I needed to be able to do what I do today, but also the empathy you know for for her life, um, and, and what she went through, you know, placing a child for adoption or even under a safe surrender, these parents allow their heart to break for the betterment of their child and, you know, that's why adoption is such an important part of our ministry is because these, these birth moms, they're, they're heroes, they're they're allowing their heart to break.
Speaker 2:So that another mother can be a mother and putting their child first and um, and so I'm just, I'm really thankful that I did get to meet you know her and um get to know her story, but I'm very thankful that mom and dad raised me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I remember around the time that you did go and see her and stuff.
Speaker 1:I know it was really hard on mom and dad, but I also know that after you did meet her cause, I know mom, I know mom was fearful that you weren't going to love her I remember these conversations me and mom had and I remember reassuring mom that that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:You're still her mom, or, yeah, you're still her mom, you know, and stuff, and um, I just remember um, after you know, things settled and you had met her, and I think you come to that realization that you were glad that you weren't raised in that situation, you know. And then I don't know, you must've had a conversation with mom or something. Just because I just remember the relief on mom's face because it was like she was so afraid she was going to lose you, you know, and she didn't. And I just remember the change in you even after that. It was like you just matured so much more after that, you know, and I think you were I don't want to say more grateful, but you know like you could see it in you. I just remember that growing up, like around that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's around the time you kept telling everybody you were going to write a book. I'm going to write a book. I'm going to write a book and I remember you trying to write a book when you were younger even young when I said well, and I was like no no, no, you're not, no, you're not. You're never going to write a book. Shut up Like stop. But yeah, then you wrote a book.
Speaker 2:And then I wrote a book. Um, you know, I go going back to that with the conversations with mom. I asked her if she would go meet her with me.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I knew you guys had talked, but mom didn't go into a whole lot of detail. I just know that mom was scared that she was going to lose you.
Speaker 2:She at the time when I asked her to go with me to meet my biological mother, she said that this was my, this was my turn to do this on my own that I needed to do this on my own and at the time I didn't really. I was like kind of upset that she didn't want to go Like aren't you thankful that you, you know? And and now I look back and I I'm thankful that she didn't go to that first one, because it gave me the opportunity to kind of learn more than than I did.
Speaker 2:Um, and then she passed away before mom actually got to meet her and but then mom got to meet um, my biological uncle, my biological family, and so she did get to to kind of um know the family a little bit Right.
Speaker 2:Right, but, um, but, yeah, I'm, I wish she would have met Sandy. I really do, I. I wish I would have had one picture of both of them with me. Yeah, I don't know why, I just wish I would have, but I am very thankful, you know, and I actually get criticized on social media. You're going to love this. So adoption is such a hot topic, such a hot topic, and there's people that didn't have the greatest adoption story, correct, and I know that that's part of the. I get that, that there are. There are people, but there's also people out there that don't have a good biological story either, right, um, and so when I say that I'm grateful to mom and dad for raising me and loving me, and I get criticized because people say that I should not feel grateful, or I know, I know why. I know because, trust me, I have argued. I mean why? Why did they say that?
Speaker 1:What is their thought process?
Speaker 2:behind that Because, uh, mom and dad shouldn't be thankful that they're the ones who got the child. And I mean, it's just if you read into adoption and the, the people who hate adoption, they believe that every child should be raised by their biological parents, which I absolutely disagree with. That, I mean a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I see it on a daily basis. Yeah, absolutely incorrect.
Speaker 2:And so you know they, they, and they also think that they deserve to know their heritage. Now, I'm not against knowing your heritage or your medical information, but your life trumps that. So you do you. You deserve your right to life before you deserve anything else.
Speaker 1:Right Cause, if you don't have life, then you have nothing else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who cares who your parents are If you're dead in a dumpster, you?
Speaker 2:know it's like and so for me, fighting for these moms and these babies to be out of dumpsters, these people who are against adoption are like they're, they're just well. These parents, or this is the, this is a good one, you'll love this being, you know, working in the school, um, but there are people out there that say, instead, say, instead of giving foster parents money and taking kids away from their parents, give the money to the parents to make their lives better I'm not, I'm not kidding you, okay, so so then they can um, so they go buy drugs, drugs and go buy alcohol.
Speaker 1:They can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no oh, that's, oh, it's that's usually probably from people who haven't experienced the stuff that we've experienced or seen the stuff that we've seen. Yeah. So yeah, and you know a lot of these children are victims. They become victims of prostitution. They become victims of molestation, of rape, of drug use themselves. You know, let's sell our child so we can go get some more meth. You know I mean I've seen all child so we can go get some more meth. You know I mean I've seen all these things in my careers that I've had. You know, firsthand I've seen these things. And so to give that money I mean yeah to them, so that, no, no, pay that money to a foster family who can love that kid, who had that child, has a chance of growing up normal, to see what it's like to not have to worry about.
Speaker 1:Is dad going to come in and do something to me? Am I going to have a meal tomorrow or tonight or am I going to? Yeah, am I going to eat today? Are we going to have water running water or or am I going to have to go over to the neighbors and use their hose? Am I going to have to have five blankets on me because we have no heat in the winter, you know, and don't say call your job and family service agencies, because there are some out there that don't give a darn because they don't want to do the extra steps. As long as you have access to water, you have access to a toilet, you know, then you're fine, they won't do anything. And heat, I mean in the winter, heat, yeah, yeah. So as long as you have and and I've seen people who have ran extension cords from the neighbor's house to their house for an electric heater, you know, but that's okay because they have access to it, you know, I just that's just. I could go on for hours about that. That's just so frustrating because I've seen so many kids be failed by the systems and the system Well and also failed by their parents.
Speaker 1:And well, yeah, and by their parents, and and they first get failed by their parents and then the system who's supposed to save them comes in and they fail them too. Yep, you know, um, there's a movie on I don't know if it's Netflix or Prime or what where it is now, if it's even on there, it's like something about Gabriel no, I can't think of the name of it Gabriel something and it's a. It's a true story. It's about how the, the child welfare system failed him and he ended up dying.
Speaker 1:Remember his you've probably seen it or heard of it and they put him in a in a cabinet, they lock him in a cabinet. It's so sad, like it's so hard to watch, but it's so true. These things happen, you know, and that was, I think. I think it's been a long time since I seen it, but I think it was like about abuse. But these kids, they do, they get abused and I mean, I'm sorry, but bring that child to me, let them know what it's like to be loved and be told that you are worth something. Because I'm telling you, these kids, they don't hear that from these parents.
Speaker 1:You know, these kids, and you can just see it they walk around with their head down, hoods up, they don't communicate, they don't talk, they don't do anything. Or they take the other route and they act out because they are younger, and they act out. And then they follow the footsteps of the parents. You know they see mom and dad shooting up, so they shoot up. Or the parents give them the drugs to knock them out so they can do what they need to do, or have somebody do something to them. So these are all things that are true, but let's give the parents the money, yeah, yeah, so they can stay with the biological parent. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:I fight, I fight. Sorry, we went on a soapbox there for a minute.
Speaker 1:It's just very aggravating.
Speaker 2:I'm very, very frustrated with that I I get hate from the anti-adoption people every single day. Every single day, I'm fighting that mess.
Speaker 1:Now are there going to be times when a child is adopted out, like you said, they have bad adoption stories, absolutely, but you're going to have less of those than what you have with the people staying. You know they want to reunify. You know they want to have these kids go back. You know, and I know times where they have worked with families for two and three years to try to get these kids back. When is enough enough, you know the parent continues to relapse, relapse, relapse, relapse.
Speaker 1:And we're not talking about pot, we're talking about meth, cocaine. You know all of those things. And doing it, creating it in the house with the child, you know, right there, you know. But you want to reunify, you know, reunify, you know, reunify them with the biological parents. And in three years they've relapsed multiple times. But yet you have this family over here who they've been staying with, who they now know what it's like to have a normal life, how, you know, know you're going to have a bed, a clean bed, to lay your head down at night. Warm, you know, know you're going to have a bed, a clean bed, to lay your head down at night. Warm, warm environment, food in your belly, nice, warm bath water and then boom, we're going to put you back with mom. Now you got to defend for yourself, because mom's high passed out over here or she's tripping out climbing the walls.
Speaker 2:So you're seeing my battle climbing the walls.
Speaker 1:So you're seeing my battle. I do see your battles? Yeah, no, I do, and it's very, very frustrating and I know I have mentioned your name multiple times in this and safe haven baby boxes many times in my careers, because there have been multiple times when I think other decisions should have been made, but it's not my decision to make.
Speaker 2:So are you surprised at where I am today?
Speaker 1:Yes and no. Yes and no. Like I never, cause I didn't know anything about baby boxes until you know you start doing it. Um, but I knew, once you start doing it I knew it was going to be huge. I knew some way or another it was going to be huge, because that's how you are, like. So, like when you started working at U-Haul you were just like an employee and the next thing you know, like, your store is like top, and then you, you start doing other things with them and it just grew and grew. But that's how you are. You, you went to the Navy. A single mom went to the Navy. You got married, ok, and then that didn't work out. So you came home with two kids, managed a store, built that up, met joe, got married, had another baby, you know, and you guys had had multiple businesses. And then now this like so I knew, I knew, you know it was going to be big. It was just a matter of how quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems like it's taken forever sometimes.
Speaker 1:Oh, but it's worth it, it's worth it, you know slow and steady wins the race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. So I've, I've, I've kept the last question for you uh, to the very end, okay. Cause. This is like. This is epic.
Speaker 1:Oh God.
Speaker 2:Tell me about the trip to Niagara Falls with mom and dad.
Speaker 1:Didn't know if I could talk about that or not.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:About when we came home.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, don't tell me about the trip and seeing the fall. I don't want to know all that.
Speaker 1:Well, the trip was terrible. I had to sleep with grandma.
Speaker 2:That's right. You went with mom and dad and grandma, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was horrible. It was my 13th birthday. It was horrible, horrible.
Speaker 2:So set the stage.
Speaker 1:So we came home. Well, hang on Okay.
Speaker 2:Hang on. So you guys go, mom, dad, you and grandma head for Niagara Falls and dad thinks it's okay of an idea to leave Gina and I at home. Well, leave Gina and I at home.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, because we lived right across the street from the sheriff's department, from the jail, that doesn't matter From the jail. Well, this was dad's thinking, okay, and he's like, I have him looking out at the house. I remember he'd say that I'm thinking they probably went and partied with him, but anyway, so we decided to come home a day early because it was just a miserable trip. Okay, let's be honest, it was miserable and we decided to come home a day early. And I'll never forget we're coming down the road and there were all these cars parked Now.
Speaker 1:this was what time this was like early, very early morning. It was very early morning, late night, early morning, I don't know. I don't remember Cause we drove straight through heaven. Forbid dad get a hotel, you know we are driving, oh my gosh he was.
Speaker 1:I kept fighting for a hotel with a pool the whole time, the whole time. Finally, the last night we got one and it was too cold to even swim, but any who, it was too expensive, but anyway. So I remember pulling up and mom and dad are like, well, there's a lot of cars. And I remember them saying, well, they better not be at our house. And so we pull in and we go in. You guys had like a weekend rager or a week long party whatever, like I don't know how long it lasted, but there were people everywhere, everybody was sleeping. You say, you guys, me, you and Gina, my older sister, older sister gina, yeah, and I remember standing in the dining room and that's the front door, the dining room, so the dining room was the front door and then off of that to the back of it was the kitchen which had our back door.
Speaker 1:Okay, so dad and mom are like and then on the side of the dining room was like another sitting room and then the living room and like that. Okay, so mom and dad were standing, I think, by like that doorway to go into, like the other sitting room and I'm standing back by the doorway between the kitchen and the dining room.
Speaker 2:And I remember, so you can see both doors.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can see both doors. And actually I had my back to the room and I remember you can see both doors. Oh, I can see both doors. And actually I had my back to the back door and I remember them just yelling at you guys, like they had both of you down there and them yelling, and I'm just like oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And I turn around and look and there is just a stream of kids running out the back door as quiet as they could, and I just turn my head back around because I'm like, oh no, I ain't saying anything because those two will beat the crap out of me. I'm not saying a word. So I just remember them yelling and yelling and yelling and I think they had one of the kids there or something, and then they called the police. Did they call the police? I can't remember if they called, maybe they didn't. I know at some point the police got involved because one of the kids left his glasses there and dad refused to give it to him because he left the stuff and then I go up.
Speaker 2:It was his shoes and his glasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just remember the glasses. Then I go upstairs and people were in my room and then I was really ticked because people were in my room and they came down, but that's I remember. And then I just remember the stories that I've heard after that. Like you guys had cleaned out the refrigerator we had a refrigerator on the back porch and one in the kitchen and you guys had cleaned out the refrigerators and filled it with alcohol and then, um, yeah, like that was interesting, just to clarify yeah, the majority of these people were gina's friends I was gonna say I think I remember you saying that they were more of gina's friends gina, and gina was the good one I know no, it's the good ones that you have to really watch out for.
Speaker 2:no, the ones that don't get in trouble, those, were mostly Gina's friends, and that was the second party that we had. Yeah, the first party was worse than the second one, oh my gosh. Yeah, and so I remember the second. The first one we had the first party and we had to clean up the next day, and it was so bad and so we cleaned it up, got the house, all you know, back in order, thinking that was going to be the last party.
Speaker 2:Oh no, gina invites all these people over again for another party. And so the second party actually was the one you guys walked in on and we were we were banking on having one day to clean because you guys came home a day early.
Speaker 1:We came home early one day to clean because you guys came home a day early, yeah, we came home early, yeah, and so we were done spending money.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and you were not staying in a hotel room.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't sleep with grandma again.
Speaker 2:No, and and so that second party literally was was the second party that Gina had had and I'm. I know people are going to be like no, I'm sure you had, yes, I was there, yes, I party, but it was not my friends. It was like, and people are like oh, you're the instigator, you're the problem. It really wasn't me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's now that you say that. I do remember that always being what was said. Cause, Gina, when we've had conversations over, you know, campfires is when we always figure this out.
Speaker 2:Um, she had made that comment too. Yeah, that it was her friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I wasn't. I wasn't such a bad kid, you know, at that time with that incident.
Speaker 2:Just kidding, I'll admit I'll admit I I was.
Speaker 1:I was probably a tough kid to raise you were, you definitely gave mom and dad a run for the money. Oh my gosh, I just remember you guys arguing all the time. You were always getting yelled at for something, always. And then I remember too, when mom found out you were pregnant with Allie. I'll never. And I remember being upstairs going, yes, yes, I'm going to be an aunt, I'm going to be an aunt. And she's like hi, we're going to the doctor. Oh my gosh, do you remember?
Speaker 2:that yeah, oh yeah, well, I was what.
Speaker 1:Six and a half months pregnant when they found out.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you were that far along, yeah. And she came to the school and I walked out cause I got a note saying that you had a doctor's appointment. I'm like I'm not sick, you know and you're past that stage, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, uh, uh, I got out and I sat in the car and she just looked at me. She goes you know why? We're going to the doctor, right? And I was like there's no lying at this point, I can't lie. And so I said yeah, I know why. And she goes are you going to tell me? And I said I'm pregnant. And she started crying. And then we went to the doctor and, sure enough, I know I was so excited, yeah, well, and we got into the doctor's office and I'll never forget this because, uh, the immediately the doctor was like I know this family that would love to raise this child. I mean, it was just like there was no talking about parenting. There was, and it was like I know a family that would love to take. I'm sitting there thinking to myself wait, I'm just coming in here to get a checkup, not find a set of parents for my child, you know.
Speaker 2:Um, but you know, being adopted is the reason why I didn't place her for adoption, because I didn't want her to ever wonder. You know, like I did, yeah, and so now I have a daughter that is almost identical to me.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, uh, she drives me crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Literally drives me crazy.
Speaker 1:She was more of a sister to me than a, than a niece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but she'll do anything for her family. Oh, she will, absolutely. Would do anything for her family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we love her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, thank you for coming on my podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and thanks for having me. You know dumping the tea. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Well, this is Monica Kelsey from beyond the Box. And there you have it. The Instigator now has her own podcast. We'll see you next time on Beyond the Box. God bless you. Thank you so much for listening to Beyond the Box with Monica Kelsey today. If you would like to support this ministry of helping moms and babies across this country, one box at a time, you can make a donation today at sh BB org.